Israel declares war on Hamas

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

The surgery either occurred soon after the injury on Oct 7, or, even worse yet, they didn't perform surgery on a gun wound until much later. That's a far worse act.

Can we not acknowledge that's wrong, without making up facts in an attempt to shift blame?

I already called it terrible.

When did the surgery occur?

Facts and links please. Since you don’t make things up.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I already called it terrible.

When did the surgery occur?

Facts and links please. Since you don’t make things up.

If we don't know when the surgery occurred, what would possibly cause you to make up a fact about Hamas not having anesthesia? Why would you possibly feel the need to downplay their actions?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

If we don't know when the surgery occurred, what would possibly cause you to make up a fact about Hamas not having anesthesia? Why would you possibly feel the need to downplay their actions?

If we don’t know when the surgery occurred, what would possibly cause you to make up a fact about Hamas offering prompt medical treatment? Why would you possibly feel the need to downplay their actions?

[Fuzz]

Do we know he was shot Oct 7th, or is that just an assumption, too? You sure give a lot of #### about this guys leg and Hamas denying anesthesia, while simultaneously not caring about the tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians who have been killed or wounded who also have no medical care. "But they have a tiny dialysis room working now!" is a rather pathetic deflection, no?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Do we know he was shot Oct 7th, or is that just an assumption, too? You sure give a lot of #### about this guys leg and Hamas denying anesthesia, while simultaneously not caring about the tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians who have been killed or wounded who also have no medical care. "But they have a tiny dialysis room working now!" is a rather pathetic deflection, no?

He was shot after being taken hostage. That's much worse.

No one has mentioned anything about the Palestinian victims. Seems like what's going on here is because Palestinians are suffering, you guys think its acceptable to justify Hamas' actions by creating facts about what Israel has done.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Do we know he was shot Oct 7th, or is that just an assumption, too? You sure give a lot of #### about this guys leg and Hamas denying anesthesia, while simultaneously not caring about the tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians who have been killed or wounded who also have no medical care. "But they have a tiny dialysis room working now!" is a rather pathetic deflection, no?

He doesn’t even care about the fact that Hamas murdered a hostage and this hostage was a witness to it.

He’s referred to Hamas as simply “bad” while others aren’t afraid to use much stronger language to condemn them and is totally ignoring the murder, instead making up stories and focusing entirely on his opinion that Hamas provided prompt medical treatment.

He’s literally justifying Hamas (by his own definition).

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

He was shot after being taken hostage. That's much worse.

Agreed, it would be, because Hamas is terrible. So why are you making up facts to justify them and downplay how terrible they are?

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by blankall

He was shot after being taken hostagee.

How do you know that?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by blankall

He was shot after being taken hostage. That's much worse.

No one has mentioned anything about the Palestinian victims. Seems like what's going on here is because Palestinians are suffering, you guys think its acceptable to justify Hamas' actions by creating facts about what Israel has done.

So it's much worse once you have someone in captivity to also treat them cruel and inhumanely? Is that the leg you want to stand on here?

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by blankall

Even then the kidney dialysis is working and restoration is beginning, with major repairs underway:

Shameless.
Somewhere in there they've got a few dialysis machines working and you spin it as things are fine.

And what are these "major" repairs that you speak off and "restoration"?

From your link.

“What is happening at Al Shifa Hospital is not a restoration process but an attempt to rehabilitate some rooms and floors under the request and pressure of residents and patients,” Mutasim Salah, a member of the Health Emergency Committee in the Gaza Strip told The National.

Mr Salah said the area under rehabilitation is the unit providing care for patients with kidney failure who have not had access to medical attention in weeks.

Originally Posted by blankall

It's also likely that hostages were killed with Al Shifa Hospital.

Do share what you base this likelihood on?

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by blankall

No one has mentioned anything about the Palestinian victims.

Just the children getting amputations without anaesthesia.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Agreed, it would be, because Hamas is terrible. So why are you making up facts to justify them and downplay how terrible they are?

What facts have I made up here. 3 possibilities, each worse than the last:

On Oct 7, they shot him and then did surgery without anesthetic.

He was shot on Oct 7 and his surgery wasn't done until much later.

He was shot later while in captivity and a hostage.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Why are you so caught up on this? Hamas does so many bad things you don't need to make anything up or get hung up on this one thing.

Hamas is cruel and so is Israel. Difference is we support none of the cruelty. I go to sleep well with my morals, I'm not sure how you sleep.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

What facts have I made up here. 3 possibilities, each worse than the last:

On Oct 7, they shot him and then did surgery without anesthetic.

He was shot on Oct 7 and his surgery wasn't done until much later.

He was shot later while in captivity and a hostage.

You tell me. You’re the one who said anaesthesia availability couldn’t have been an issue despite the FACTS showing that it was in the week following October 7, so obviously you’re justifying Hamas treatment of him by saying they gave him prompt medical attention when you should be focused on his terrible treatment and the murder they committed in front of him.

You don’t have to defend Hamas here or justify their actions. You can call them terrible.

Looks like you’ve been busted again and now you’re scrambling to change your story.

[Bagor]

Meanwhile....

More than 10 children on average have lost one or both of their legs every day in Gaza since October 7, with many amputations performed without anesthesia, a charity said Sunday, underscoring the dire humanitarian situation in the Palestinian enclave following more than three months of Israeli bombardment.

In a statement citing United Nations statistics, Save the Children’s director for the occupied Palestinian territory, Jason Lee, said the “suffering of children in this conflict is unimaginable and even more so because it is unnecessary and completely avoidable.”

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/08/middl...hnk/index.html

That extrapolates to about 3000 children having one or more limb amputated since the start of the genocide and who knows how many adults. Many of the amputations carried out without analgesia or anaesthesia due to an Israeli blockade of medical supplies.

Waiting for blankall's comments on the cruelty of that.

Or will it be another case of there being copious amounts of medical supplies available but the WHO decided to withhold it all.

[Doctorfever]

It’s a mess there.

Israel bargaining with Hamas for a ceasefire. I don’t think Hamas really cares about a ceasefire. I think they want this war, wanted it from the start, hence Oct 7 and taking hostages.

Israel is rightfully so being criticized for their response, but I sometimes feel that the way Hamas embeds themselves within the population and uses Palestinians as meat shields that they actually care less about the citizens than Israel.

Not sure how it stops, but again, I don’t think Hamas is interested in a ceasefire. More and more needless deaths the longer this goes on.

[indes]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

It’s a mess there.



Israel bargaining with Hamas for a ceasefire. I don’t think Hamas really cares about a ceasefire. I think they want this war, wanted it from the start, hence Oct 7 and taking hostages.



Israel is rightfully so being criticized for their response, but I sometimes feel that the way Hamas embeds themselves within the population and uses Palestinians as meat shields that they actually care less about the citizens than Israel.



Not sure how it stops, but again, I don’t think Hamas is interested in a ceasefire. More and more needless deaths the longer this goes on.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit. You can see the tides turning against Israel and anti-Semitism ramping up worldwide. Hamas is getting more than they probably dreamed of from October 7, they didn't care about the Palestinians before and they won't care after the dust settles. Iran will be happy with the destabilization of Israel's relationships and Hamas leadership will get paid.

Israel got goaded into this thing and I'm not sure there's a path to any sort of meaningful victory. Just more senseless fighting like Ukraine/Russia.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by indes

Wouldn't surprise me one bit. You can see the tides turning against Israel and anti-Semitism ramping up worldwide. Hamas is getting more than they probably dreamed of from October 7, they didn't care about the Palestinians before and they won't care after the dust settles. Iran will be happy with the destabilization of Israel's relationships and Hamas leadership will get paid.

Israel got goaded into this thing and I'm not sure there's a path to any sort of meaningful victory. Just more senseless fighting like Ukraine/Russia.

Israel got goaded into this, but they had to respond and defend themselves. And try and rescue hostages before they are killed.

The absolute disaster that Gaza is right now, you would think the citizens would be very upset with Hamas, but I’m not certain that they are. I wonder how many Palestinians in Gaza support Hamas.

[Doctorfever]

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/03...-palestinians/

According to the poll, only seven percent of Gazans blamed Hamas for their suffering. Seventy-one percent of all Palestinians supported Hamas’s decision to attack Israel on October 7 — up 14 points among Gazans

That is way higher than I would have expected. 71% of Palestinians support Oct 7th attacks.

Disclaimer, I did not look at this website to see if it carries a bias, so apologies in advance if it’s not a good source.

[GGG]

Similar numbers to Israel’s support of their governments actions in Gaza as of May 20th

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2...ael-hamas-war/

People are tribal and when faced with adversity can justify all sorts of atrocities.

A new Pew Research Center survey finds that 39% of Israelis say Israel’s military response against Hamas in Gaza has been about right, while 34% say it has not gone far enough and 19% think it has gone too far.

So large swaths of the population support the current slaughter of civilians.

I don’t think it’s reasonable to use polling during ongoing conflicts to judge the populations. There is so much propaganda and justification to support your side.