2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think Dube is going to be a great 3rd liner.
But if you can get Stone, who is a top line player, and have him part of the go-forward core - I do that without hesitation
Like T99 Valimaki is a deal breaker.

Except there is basically 0% chance Stone would be a Flame after this season. Of course if they could convince Stone to sign a real nice deal then it's a no-brainer to include Dube, but Dube for a rental is a terrible idea.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Fire

Except there is basically 0% chance Stone would be a Flame after this season. Of course if they could convince Stone to sign a real nice deal then it's a no-brainer to include Dube, but Dube for a rental is a terrible idea.

If the Flames get Mark Stone, they should move heaven and earth to try to re-sign him. Keeping him would allow the Flames to have 5 top-30 forwards in the NHL. If T.J. Brodie and Michael Frolik are offseason casualties... well, so be it. Good teams lose players to keep core pieces, and Stone would instantly be one of the Flames' most important players.

Look at the Leafs... they lost JVR, Bozak, and Komarov this summer just to make sure they could get Tavares. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made.

[GreenLantern2814]

^^^Hanifin is absolutely a must protect.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

If the Flames get Mark Stone, they should move heaven and earth to try to re-sign him. Keeping him would allow the Flames to have 5 top-30 forwards in the NHL. If T.J. Brodie and Michael Frolik are offseason casualties... well, so be it. Good teams lose players to keep core pieces, and Stone would instantly be one of the Flames' most important players.

Look at the Leafs... they lost JVR, Bozak, and Komarov this summer just to make sure they could get Tavares. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made.

It's not going to happen. The sooner people realize that the better. He's going to get at least $9-$10 million/yr. I'm sure you can give me a workable line-up by trading all the overpaid guys and replacing them with million dollar players, but that isn't really possible in reality.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

^^^Hanifin is absolutely a must protect.

Hanifin's a valuable piece but I don't have him in that tier yet. We've seen guys like JayBo, Phaneuf, Leddy, etc plateau in their development instead of having a prime. Maybe he takes the step, maybe he doesn't, but he's not there yet.

[LWcrowfoot]

Mark Stone seems like the stuff of fantasies. There is no way it works under the cap. Brodie and his brother Mike already potentially need to be moved for cap issues, ditto for Frolik. Calgary has four forwards at a PPG, is another going to be seal the deal?

Who comes off the first power play so he gets big minutes? Do you drop Lindholm down to unit two and accept his numbers dipping?

Stone would instantly be one of the Flames' most important players.

Stone would be tied with Lindholm as the third most important winger behind Gaudreau and Tkachuk. Sole possession of third if Elias played centre.

[oldschoolcalgary]

the decision to protect Gio might be a moot point, as he has a NTC (modified) that year of his contract meaning he must be protected unless he waives it.

So based on the current roster, Gio, Valimaki and Hanifin would be protected.

Getting Stone is a dream as it would take some really good prospects and there would be major cap implications.

Who gets ice time? I doubt that is an issue and if it is, he's not the kind of guy you want in the room... but by all accounts he's a team first guy.

edit: based on carpetbagger's clarification, i'd probably protect Hanifin, Valimaki and probably Andersson, however that is also dependent on Gio's game at the time....

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by LWcrowfoot

Stone would be tied with Lindholm as the third most important winger behind Gaudreau and Tkachuk. Sole possession of third if Elias played centre.

Stone is far better than Lindholm and is honestly better than Tkachuk. He's a monster at both ends of the ice and is probably a top-15 forward in the entire league. He'd be an enormous acquisition -- skill-wise, he's basically what Tkachuk can be in his prime, but available right now.

The Flames' tiers of players with Stone would look like this:

Level 1: Gaudreau, Giordano, Stone
Level 1.5: Tkachuk
Level 2: Lindholm, Monahan, Hamonic
Level 3: Backlund, Rittich, Hanifin
-- the rest --

Also, it's definitely doable under the cap. 100%, even assuming that Tkachuk and Stone combine for $17ish million in salary. If the cap goes up to $83 million as projected, the Flames would still have about $2 million in cap space if they dealt Brodie and Frolik for picks/futures in the offseason -- which is certainly feasible.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

the decision to protect Gio might be a moot point, as he has a NTC (modified) that year of his contract meaning he must be protected unless he waives it.

So based on the current roster, Gio, Valimaki and Hanifin would be protected.

Getting Stone is a dream as it would take some really good prospects and there would be major cap implications.

Who gets ice time? I doubt that is an issue and if it is, he's not the kind of guy you want in the room... but by all accounts he's a team first guy.

No trade clauses dont have to be protected, No movement clauses do.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Stone is far better than Lindholm and is honestly better than Tkachuk. He's a monster at both ends of the ice and is probably a top-15 forward in the entire league. He'd be an enormous acquisition -- skill-wise, he's basically what Tkachuk can be in his prime, but available right now.

The Flames' tiers of players with Stone would look like this:

Level 1: Gaudreau, Giordano, Stone
Level 1.5: Tkachuk
Level 2: Lindholm, Monahan, Hamonic
Level 3: Backlund, Rittich, Hanifin
-- the rest --

Also, it's definitely doable under the cap. 100%, even assuming that Tkachuk and Stone combine for $17ish million in salary. If the cap goes up to $83 million as projected, the Flames would still have about $2 million in cap space if they dealt Brodie and Frolik for picks/futures in the offseason -- which is certainly feasible.

Nah I take Tkachuk who is 6 years younger over Stone. I get that Mark Stone is underrated and he hasn’t had the monster season points wise because he has had injury concerns but I would still prioritize the big 4 forwards who are all younger and signed to cheaper deals than Stone.

I have a feeling if the Flames landed Stone though they would get him to sign a deal around where his current cap hit is. I feel Frolik and Brodie’s cap hits would need to be moved by the summer to make it happen

[LWcrowfoot]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Nah I take Tkachuk who is 6 years younger over Stone. I get that Mark Stone is underrated and he hasn’t had the monster season points wise because he has had injury concerns but I would still prioritize the big 4 forwards who are all younger and signed to cheaper deals than Stone.

I have a feeling if the Flames landed Stone though they would get him to sign a deal around where his current cap hit is. I feel Frolik and Brodie’s cap hits would need to be moved by the summer to make it happen

This is my take as well, close enough anyway. We can debate winger and forward rankings and tiers of Flames till the cows come home but I fail to see why Stone is a "monster" at both ends of the ice but Lindholm isn't. And I certainly don't follow the logic of being what Tkachuk can be considering how elite Matthew already is.

Four forwards sitting at a PPG and we're aiming for a fifth, why? If you can find a magically land place for Neal then maybe it's possible.

[TheScorpion]

Why not? The best teams are always adding. Was there a real reason for Tampa to add Ryan McDonagh last year, aside from just making their already terrific defensive core a true embarrassment of riches?

The Flames' top-six with Gaudreau, Stone, Tkachuk, Monahan, Lindholm, and Backlund might be the very best in the NHL. If the Flames have the chance to lock in that top-six for at least the next three years... holy smokes.

Also -- why is Stone a monster where Lindholm isn't? Well, Stone is at a 12.1 relative Corsi on the Senators. Without him, that team is one of the worst teams ever (2016-17 Avalanche levels of bad), and with him, they play at a middle-of-the-pack level. Lindholm was never able to drive play in Carolina the same way that Stone is able to in Ottawa. The Flames acquired Lindholm with the idea that he'd "pop," but Stone doesn't need to do that.

And, if he improved here like Lindholm has, we're talking about a player who could be part of one of the best two-way lines in recent history. Tkachuk, Backlund, and Stone could be as good at both ends of the ice as Gaudreau, Monahan, and Lindholm -- and having two unstoppable forward lines is a hallmark of an elite team.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Why not? The best teams are always adding. Was there a real reason for Tampa to add Ryan McDonagh last year, aside from just making their already terrific defensive core a true embarrassment of riches?

The Flames' top-six with Gaudreau, Stone, Tkachuk, Monahan, Lindholm, and Backlund might be the very best in the NHL. If the Flames have the chance to lock in that top-six for at least the next three years... holy smokes.

Also -- why is Stone a monster where Lindholm isn't? Well, Stone is at a 12.1 relative Corsi on the Senators. Without him, that team is one of the worst teams ever (2016-17 Avalanche levels of bad), and with him, they play at a middle-of-the-pack level. Lindholm was never able to drive play in Carolina the same way that Stone is able to in Ottawa. The Flames acquired Lindholm with the idea that he'd "pop," but Stone doesn't need to do that.

And, if he improved here like Lindholm has, we're talking about a player who could be part of one of the best two-way lines in recent history. Tkachuk, Backlund, and Stone could be as good at both ends of the ice as Gaudreau, Monahan, and Lindholm -- and having two unstoppable forward lines is a hallmark of an elite team.

But how much would that 2nd line cost? Tkachuk and Stone will cost a pretty penny

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Why not? The best teams are always adding.

And yet you are consistently talking about subtracting our #2 defenseman like he's expendable or a bad contract.

Forwards are exciting, but look at every cup winning team in the last thirteen years besides the 2017 Penguins and their blue lines were absolutely suffocatingly good, to go with quality forward cores, often with the top two or three guys logging minutes in the 27-28 minute range come playoff time

Doughty
Voynov
Mitchell
Muzzin

Keith
Seabrook
Campbell
Hjalmarsson
Byfuglien

Keith
Seabrook
Hjalmarsson
Oduya
Leddy

Letang
Dumoulin
Daley
Schultz

Orlov
Carlson
Niskanen
Kempny


Chara
Seidenberg
Boychuk
Kaberle

Lidstrom
Rafalski
Kronwall

So yeah, if the cost of acquiring Stone is weaking our current D core, it's a net negative even if Stone is great.

Was there a real reason for Tampa to add Ryan McDonagh last year, aside from just making their already terrific defensive core a true embarrassment of riches?

The reason for Tampa to add Ryan McDonagh was because they saw a very talented Sergachev and a stacked forward core - and still felt that you need your blue line to be your most important skaters, not just loading up on forwards who are going to get 16 minutes a game and eat into each other's powerplay time.

[Heavy Jack]

I’m with Scorp on this one, adding and locking up Stone would lock up an incredibly deep top 6 group.

Gaudreau 26 years old - 3 x 6.75
Monahan 25 years old - 4 x 6.375
Lindholm 25 years old - 5 x 4.85
Backlund 30 years old - 5 x 5.35
Tkachuk 22 years old - 7 x 7.35
Stone 27 years old - 6 x 8.25

Crazy deep core with only Backlund being the elder at 30 the majority entering their prime years that’s just such a lethal couple of lines that would be nightmarish to defend against so I’m really hoping that Treliving is indeed looking at and able to land Stone.

[TheScorpion]

Brodie is a pending UFA in 2020 and he will almost surely receive an awful contract. I do not want the Flames to pay Brodie until he's 35 because his skating will probably deteriorate and his infrequent lapses will likely become more common. If there's a player on the Flames who has the capability to regress like Dennis Wideman, it's Brodie, whose possession metrics apart from Giordano are very poor.

Put Hamonic with Giordano and give the youngsters time to develop. If need be, sign a veteran (with better results) like Nick Jensen to shore up the right side in Brodie's absence.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Doughty
Voynov
Mitchell
Muzzin

Keith
Seabrook
Campbell
Hjalmarsson
Byfuglien

Keith
Seabrook
Hjalmarsson
Oduya
Leddy

Letang
Dumoulin
Daley
Schultz

Orlov
Carlson
Niskanen
Kempny


Chara
Seidenberg
Boychuk
Kaberle

Lidstrom
Rafalski
Kronwall

This would take me forever to figure out, but don’t most of these sets have a couple of entry level/bargain contracts? With the prospects Calgary has, there is a chance to have it all. Everything still has to work out as planned of course.

[goflamesgo18]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

And yet you are consistently talking about subtracting our #2 defenseman like he's expendable or a bad contract.

Forwards are exciting, but look at every cup winning team in the last thirteen years besides the 2017 Penguins and their blue lines were absolutely suffocatingly good, to go with quality forward cores, often with the top two or three guys logging minutes in the 27-28 minute range come playoff time

Doughty
Voynov
Mitchell
Muzzin

Keith
Seabrook
Campbell
Hjalmarsson
Byfuglien

Keith
Seabrook
Hjalmarsson
Oduya
Leddy

Letang
Dumoulin
Daley
Schultz

Orlov
Carlson
Niskanen
Kempny


Chara
Seidenberg
Boychuk
Kaberle

Lidstrom
Rafalski
Kronwall

So yeah, if the cost of acquiring Stone is weaking our current D core, it's a net negative even if Stone is great.



The reason for Tampa to add Ryan McDonagh was because they saw a very talented Sergachev and a stacked forward core - and still felt that you need your blue line to be your most important skaters, not just loading up on forwards who are going to get 16 minutes a game and eat into each other's powerplay time.

Kempny? Seidenberg? Boychuk? Orlov? Dumoulin? Mitchell?

There is nothing suffocatingly good about these players.

[Heavy Jack]

Plus with Brodie and the cap value of his contract for one more season you almost surely guarantee recouping a 1st round pick that will be in the 10-20 range which has a great chance of being a better pick than the one we package out to get Stone. With Kylington, Andersson and Valimaki to pair with Hanifin, a seemingly ageless Giordano and a likely extended Hamonic our D looks fine going forward if we subtract Brodie in the off-season.

[TheScorpion]

Slava Voynov was on his ELC in 2012 and was 22 years old. Hjalmarsson was 22 when the Hawks won the Cup in 2010. Nick Leddy was 22 in 2013.

Without Brodie next year, Andersson would be playing in the top-4 at age 23. Kylington will be 22.