[Signing] Flames sign Deryk Engelland (3yrs, $2.9M AAV)

[heep223]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Bollig, Engeland, Raymond...
One good move, Hiller.
Pattern. Trelliving's record is nothing spectacular so far.
If you give a break to an inexperienced GM as learning on the job, then moves like we have seen in the past from our GM's can never be scrutinized.

Originally Posted by theoforever

I'm very concerned that our GM has picked busts in Engelland, Raymond, Bollig.
He gave up assets and term. It shows what kind of judge of talent he is.
Interesting that Knight is setting AHL on fire, while Shore who many thought should have automatically been given an NHL spot that he didn't earn, has done very little. How competent is our GM?

Originally Posted by theoforever

Good guess. Wouldn't Jay be getting nailed for those additions?
Anyway, good thing that Jays's prospects and additions are doing well.

Knight has been doing well prior to the trade too, but I will patiently wait for Shore to show what Trelliving has seen for years.

Yeah, a 3rd isn't much for nothing, Cammy for nothing isn't much either, keep the count rolling, of how much isn't much?
Little mistakes, no big deal, free pass, etc.

Originally Posted by theoforever

If the chances are so small, we should scrap amateur scouting staff.
Why bother drafting other than in the first round, let's use Oiler formula for success, we should have followed Sabres blueprint.

Originally Posted by theoforever

Yeah, I almost forgotten:
Hudler, Russel, Wideman,
Monahan, Johnny, Poirier, Grunland, etc.

Was the scoring machine Blair one of Jays?

Originally Posted by theoforever

Yes, some were. Poirier over Skunkaruk, smarter than the other guys in the room for going off the imaginery "board". Failure to sign Erixon.
Wideman, a 6-7 dman.
No credit for Monahan as it was an obvious pick........
Johnny is too small

Originally Posted by theoforever

I heard that Jay, changed the staff and added to it.

PS are you drunk?
PPS you're just cherry picking things to strengthen your argument and discrediting any good decisions by saying "he shouldn't get any credit because it was so obvious".

[Lumby Lager]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

Engelland, Diaz and Potter is a big upgrade on Butler, O'Brien and Smith. And the positive results are showing on the ice.

Relax. The Flames rebuild isn't going to live or die based on how well Engelland and Bolig perform. As a whole, this is easily the best D the Flames have iced in years.

Exactly this! Minor depth signings that actually made us better. Bollig is also an improvement on Westgarth.

A few of them could be gone in the next few weeks.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by heep223

PS are you drunk?
PPS you're just cherry picking things to strengthen your argument and discrediting any good decisions by saying "he shouldn't get any credit because it was so obvious".

First of all, calling someone stupid is against the board policy, as it is a personal attack, so I will refrain from getting down to your level.

Second, I have given credit to Jay every time, but apparently that is not allowed. The point was that even if you give zero credit to Jay, he still allowed Todd to do his job.

Do you even know what you are reading?
Clearly you missed the point, go get a beer, boy.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by theoforever

First of all, calling someone stupid is against the board policy, as it is a personal attack, so I will refrain from getting down to your level.

Originally Posted by theoforever

Do you even know what you are reading?
Clearly you missed the point, go get a beer, boy.

Kind of contradictory just like your stance that Jay deserves credit for drafting that was quickly changed to Jay deserves credit for stepping out of the way of the drafting.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Kind of contradictory just like your stance that Jay deserves credit for drafting that was quickly changed to Jay deserves credit for stepping out of the way of the drafting.

Hackey, you are my favorite poster, but you should stick to writing position papers on how Flames are tanking worse than Sabres.

You know my position, Jay deserves credit, but that's not a popular position, just to shut that part of argument in the bud, I coincided the credit, since it was not important to the meat of the matter.

...but you keep on reading....

[Hackey]

Credit for what? It's known fact he had nothing to do with drafting. Twist it however you need to though if you have difficulty just admitting you were wrong on that point.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Credit for what? It's known fact he had nothing to do with drafting. Twist it however you need to though if you have difficulty just admitting you were wrong on that point.

We went through this before, GM is setting parameters, but you don't read anyway. Drafting under Jay was the best since the 80's. He improved scouting department, brought new people, let everyone have a say, just as a good manager should.

[Hackey]

If your gonna give a guy credit I think you need to be a bit more specific. We know Button was responsible for Gaudreau. We know Weisbrod was responsible for Jankowski. If your gonna give Jay credit I think you need more than blanket statements.

[Hackey]

Its judt funny your trying to roast Treliving for a few minor transactions and praise Feaster when you don't even know the extent of his involvement. Seems like a bit of a biased opinion.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by theoforever

We went through this before, GM is setting parameters, but you don't read anyway. Drafting under Jay was the best since the 80's. He improved scouting department, brought new people, let everyone have a say, just as a good manager should.

I'm pretty sure it was Sutter who began the upgrading of the scouting department and it was shown in the few drafts before Jay came along.
Jay did a few things right by not interfering with the draft, as he didn't have a clue about scouting or player appraisal, which is fine to give credit for but he also did a whole lot of things wrong and couldn't be fired quick enough for my liking.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by theoforever

We went through this before, GM is setting parameters, but you don't read anyway. Drafting under Jay was the best since the 80's. He improved scouting department, brought new people, let everyone have a say, just as a good manager should.

who did he bring intp amateur scouting?

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

who did he bring intp amateur scouting?

To get you started on your research, 5 guys were added to scouting staff in 2011 in addition to Weisbrod. I would say that is significant amount.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by theoforever

To get you started on your research, 5 guys were added to scouting staff in 2011 in addition to Weisbrod. I would say that is significant amount.

Who were they and which leagues did they scout?

[GioforPM]

http://flamesnation.ca/2012/5/14/the...-of-tod-button

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Who were they and which leagues did they scout?

Anzalone, Volek, Sumnner, Cummins, Addesa. Now be a Sherlock and put the names to jobs.

[Phanuthier]

Doesn't seem that much of a overhaul.

[GioforPM]

From back in the day:


2009-10 Media Guide: 15 (Sutter GM, Holditch AGM)

• Tod Button (Director of Scouting), Fred Devereaux, Juha Hautamaa, Steve Leach, Bob MacMillan, Robert Pulford, Greg Rejanen, Blair Reid, Mike Sands (Director of Amateur Scouting), Anders Steen, Ron Sutter (also Player Development), Ritch Thibeau, Al Tuer, Rhett Warrener (also Player Development), Tom Webster

2010-11 Media Guide: 13 (Sutter GM, Feaster and Holditch AGM)

• Tod Button (Director of Scouting), Michel Goulet, Ari Haanpaa, Steve Leach, Bob MacMillan, Fred Parker, Steve Pleau, Robert Pulford, Greg Rejanen, Blair Reid, Anders Steen, Ritch Thibeau, Tom Webster
• Changes: Devereaux, Hautamaa, Tuer and Warrener gone; Sutter re-assigned to only Player Development; Goulet, Haanpaa, Pleau added

2011-12 Media Guide: 16 (Feaster GM, Weisbrod and Holditch AGM)

• Mike Adessa (amateur, New England), Frank Anzalone (amateur, NCAA), Tod Button (Director, Amateur Scouting), Jim Cummins (amateur, USHL), Michel Goulet (pro), Ari Haanpaa (amateur, Europe), Steve Leach (pro), Bob MacMillan (amateur, QMJHL), Fred Parker (amateur, OHL/QMJHL), Steve Pleau (pro), Blair Reid (amateur, WHL/East), Anders Steen (amateur, Europe), Rob Sumner (amateur, WHL/West), Richie Thibeau (amateur, Maritimes) David Volek (pro, Europe), Tom Webster (amateur, OHL)
• Changes: Rejanen and Pulford gone; Adessa, Anzalone, Cummins, Sumner and Volek added; titles added; Weisbrod explicitly added as de facto head of all scouting (pro scouts report directly to Weisbrod; amateur scouts report to Button, Button reports to Weisbrod)

EDIT: In short. Depending on timelines, at least five (perhaps as many as eight) new scouts. More demarcation and specificity in terms of what the scouts are responsible for. Splitting up of amateur and pro scouting, with clearer reporting lines.


http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...52&postcount=8

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Doesn't seem that much of a overhaul.

Add to that the other 3 or 4 guys in 2010, we got a totally different department. But thanks for not contributing.....
Cheers

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Add to that the other 3 or 4 guys in 2010, we got a totally different department. But thanks for not contributing.....
Cheers

We are obviously way off topic here but feaster wasnt GM in 2010

If you like look at the leagues our successful prospects come from, its not from any of the 4.5 new scouts. It looks like most of the work is just Tod Button and Tom Webster so.... Credit Al Coates?

[getbak]

Mike Adessa was a great addition to the staff. I believe he was one of the guys who was high on Gaudreau, and he was also the one who went to bat for Jooris.