[Signing] Flames sign Deryk Engelland (3yrs, $2.9M AAV)

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Good guess. Wouldn't Jay be getting nailed for those additions?
Anyway, good thing that Jays's prospects and additions are doing well.

Knight has been doing well prior to the trade too, but I will patiently wait for Shore to show what Trelliving has seen for years.

Yeah, a 3rd isn't much for nothing, Cammy for nothing isn't much either, keep the count rolling, of how much isn't much?
Little mistakes, no big deal, free pass, etc.

I am not sure if you know what patiently means, if you are judging Shore/Knighht based on 3 AHL games.

Jay would not be nailed for these additions, because the cost was so minimal. These are not bad deals, nor great deals. They addressed a few issues, and missed the mark on others. Move on, nothing to see here.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The 3rd rounder given up for Bollig is only a bad trade if the guy the Flames would have chosen there makes the NHL and plays better thasn Bollig. So we will never know, but you can probably find stats on the average number of 3rd rounders who make it.

Scott Cullen had an article last summer that examines this. He has the chances of a 3rd rounder developing into an impact player (top 6 F, top 4 D) to be between 5.5 and 8.5%

Chances of a 3rd rounder playing in at least 100 NHL games is between 24 and 37.5% (the 37.5 is for picks 61-70 and it drops off from there).

Average player rating drafted is between 2.16 and 2.32 (2 is a minor league player, 3 is a very good minor league player).

Bottom line is that you'd be fortunate to draft someone as good as Bollig, with a tiny chance of drafting an impact player.

http://www2.tsn.ca/fantasy_news/story/?id=455673

[neo45]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The 3rd rounder given up for Bollig is only a bad trade if the guy the Flames would have chosen there makes the NHL and plays better thasn Bollig. So we will never know, but you can probably find stats on the average number of 3rd rounders who make it.

That's not really the way I judge it but to each is own. To me, Bollig is terrible and we gave up something to have him for 3 years = bad trade from day one


I mean, by your logic haven't we lost the Berra trade so far?

[theoforever]

If the chances are so small, we should scrap amateur scouting staff.
Why bother drafting other than in the first round, let's use Oiler formula for success, we should have followed Sabres blueprint.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by neo45

That's not really the way I judge it but to each is own. To me, Bollig is terrible and we gave up something to have him for 3 years = bad trade from day one


I mean, by your logic haven't we lost the Berra trade so far?

Not if the Flames (not "we" - I am not the Flames) didn't intend to re-sign Berra. Then they got a 2nd rounder for a non-asset.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Good guess. Wouldn't Jay be getting nailed for those additions?
Anyway, good thing that Jays's prospects and additions are doing well.

I decided to look into this...

2013 : TJ Galiardi, Lane McDermid
2012 : Cervenka, Blair Jones, Ben Street, Akim Aliu, Brett Carson, Derek Smith

Hm.... I honestly forget some of these guys even played for us.

[theoforever]

Yeah, I almost forgotten:
Hudler, Russel, Wideman,
Monahan, Johnny, Poirier, Grunland, etc.

Was the scoring machine Blair one of Jays?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Yeah, I almost forgotten:
Hudler, Russel, Wideman,
Monahan, Johnny, Poirier, Grunland, etc.

Was the scoring machine Blair one of Jays?

oh yeah, i forgot about those terrible additions.... they were really heavily criticized for sure

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by neo45

That's not really the way I judge it but to each is own. To me, Bollig is terrible and we gave up something to have him for 3 years = bad trade from day one

That's my perspective as well. We gave up an asset in exchange for something that I don't consider to have positive value. That's a bad trade.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

oh yeah, i forgot about those terrible additions.... they were really heavily criticized for sure

Yes, some were. Poirier over Skunkaruk, smarter than the other guys in the room for going off the imaginery "board". Failure to sign Erixon.
Wideman, a 6-7 dman.
No credit for Monahan as it was an obvious pick........
Johnny is too small

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Knight has been doing well prior to the trade too, but I will patiently wait for Shore to show what Trelliving has seen for years.

You'll patiently wait but still criticize it?what are you going to do when your patience rings out?

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

You'll patiently wait but still criticize it?what are you going to do when your patience rings out?

First, I will whine and bitch like everyone else, then "patiently" wait, only to draggit out once in a while, for amusement and giggles....

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Good guess. Wouldn't Jay be getting nailed for those additions?
Anyway, good thing that Jays's prospects and additions are doing well.

Knight has been doing well prior to the trade too, but I will patiently wait for Shore to show what Trelliving has seen for years.

Yeah, a 3rd isn't much for nothing, Cammy for nothing isn't much either, keep the count rolling, of how much isn't much?
Little mistakes, no big deal, free pass, etc.

Even the best organizations make plenty of little mistakes. It's the big ones that alter organizations and to date no big mistakes have been made. Lets not forget Feaster narrowly avoided some really big mistakes in Brad Richards and the ROR trade. I fail to see what kind of case you are making against Treliving. Sure the scouting on Engelland wasn't that great but if you point to Goulet then you also have to point to him scouting Hudler which worked out great. It's pretty obvious that Knight wasn't long for this organization as he wasn't getting called up and with the depth at center he wasn't likely to get a look in a while. Shore is a better prospect so the trade is a win even if he doesn't ever make the Flames roster as said before there isn't a lot of room up the middle as guys like him and Reinhart are not likely to make the Flames roster as full time players.

[theoforever]

Erick,

Trelliving's judgment of talent is concerning. Worry, that our drafting will go back to way below league average. That we will trade and keep the wrong prospects.

[Lumby Lager]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Yeah, I almost forgotten:
Hudler, Russel, Wideman,
Monahan, Johnny, Poirier, Grunland, etc.

Was the scoring machine Blair one of Jays?

What is your point here?

We have players that Darryl Sutter aquired on the team as well. How could you possibly compare transactions our new GM made in the first 6o day's on the job with people that have a legacy after over 3yrs with the organization.

At least Treliving has not said anything stupid to the press yet. Give him at least 18 months before you try and run the guy out of town.

[Lumby Lager]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Erick,

Trelliving's judgment of talent is concerning. Worry, that our drafting will go back to way below league average. That we will trade and keep the wrong prospects.

If you have come to this conclusion already because he traded Corbin Knight you should try and refrain from using the word patient today

[theoforever]

Lumby, The point is that those choices were criticized. Follow the exchange.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Erick,

Trelliving's judgment of talent is concerning. Worry, that our drafting will go back to way below league average. That we will trade and keep the wrong prospects.

Last I heard the scouting staff that dates back to Darryl Sutter is still intact so unless Treliving goes all Darryl Sutter and tells the staff to focus on size over skill there doesn't seem to be a lot of substance here. You simply haven't provided any compelling evidence to back up your fear mongering.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Lumby Lager

If you have come to this conclusion already because he traded Corbin Knight you should try and refrain from using the word patient today

Bollig, Engeland, Raymond...
One good move, Hiller.
Pattern. Trelliving's record is nothing spectacular so far.
If you give a break to an inexperienced GM as learning on the job, then moves like we have seen in the past from our GM's can never be scrutinized.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Last I heard the scouting staff that dates back to Darryl Sutter is still intact so unless Treliving goes all Darryl Sutter and tells the staff to focus on size over skill there doesn't seem to be a lot of substance here. You simply haven't provided any compelling evidence to back up your fear mongering.

I heard that Jay, changed the staff and added to it.