Seriously wtf was Treliving thinking? Man did he ever screw up in that last season.
By that time he had already likely decided he wasn't going to work a day longer for Edwards than permitted by his contract. He already had one foot out the door with the mindset that he wouldn't be the Flames GM dealing with the aftermath. All he cared about was the Flames last season with him as GM.
I think the flames end up with at least one more first over the next 3 years as well
I will take the over on that prediction. But perhaps that is optimistic.
Andersson alone will net a first and will likely move out in the next 12+ months.
With the cap space we have we could wind up with one or two more firsts especially if we take back a high AAV cap dump for a season or two. We have alot of cap space for a very long time.
Wildcards are what we do with Kuzmenko, Sharangovich and Kadri. Sharangovich easily returns a 1st now with his shot and it is very unclear he wants to stick with a rebuild. His words on locker clean out day were telling.
Probably a pipedream we could move Kadri for a 1st with 5 years left and his age but he has many intangibles a team would want in a Cup run.
If Mangiapane has a big resurgence in this contract year who knows...
All I know is I am fully onboard with Conroy's focus on the draft and development to rebuild this team. He is clearly prioritizing picks and has decided to focus his early building on the backend where he knows Dmen take longer to develop. Impressive now quickly he has loaded up on already drafted 20-24 year olds on D. His selections in this draft will validate such if he mostly picks forwards who develop a bit faster.
If he can parlay a couple of short term UFA signings into 1st round picks in the next couple years through trade deadline trades. We will know we finally have a GM who knows asset management with a vision that should ultimately pay off. No long term UFA signings please.
I suspect he has one more trade planned to add another early pick in this draft. Iggie knows this draft class too well. Andersson is a prime candidate for a move but we may be selling a bit low with his off year this year.
This dark timeline should soon get a bit lighter. Really looking forward to June 28-29 in the Sphere.
Anyone thinking the Flames are ever getting a 1st for taking a bad contract are dreaming . Teams have seen the disaster of those deals in the past and are finding different and better ways to work around contracts .
You may get a sweetener but it won’t be a 1st
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It’s unlikely. No one overpaid for Ferland or Bennett. Given the returns we got for those two heart and soul guys, I’d rather we have kept them.
I’d say Hanifin and Lindholm were fair returns for Hamilton and Ferland (and Fox) especially considering where those guys ended up and what Carolina got for them.
If they kept Ferland they’d have signed him to a big contract and lost him to injury.
I never mentioned Bennett at all, and he’s a different animal than Pospisil.
Expecting more than this from Markstrom was lunacy (looking at you, Athletic).
He's an inconsistent, 35 year old (will be by the midway point of his 1st season with NJ) goaltender, and he just garnered one of the largest returns we've seen for a goaltender in the last 15 years.
"Fail!" - Athletic
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It's a question, I thought that every trade needs to have a winner and a loser around these parts.
Fair enough 0 yeah, for some people that seems to be the case. Not for me, I like win/win trades.
I thought the Lindholm trade was a win/win (at the time of the trade). And I think this is - both teams got what they needed, and moved their teams forward in the direction they're trying to go. And neither team fleeced the other, so it seems like a good trade.
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Expecting more than this from Markstrom was lunacy (looking at you, Athletic).
He's an inconsistent, 35 year old (will be by the midway point of his 1st season with NJ) goaltender, and he just garnered one of the largest returns we've seen for a goaltender in the last 15 years.
"Fail!" - Athletic
CP would have been talking about how much of a pipe dream getting a 1st for Markstrom would have been at the start of last season. In fairness, that's partially because he was coming off a tough season. But regardless, this is 100% the type of deal for Markstrom most would have been very excited to get, and would have wanted Conroy to get last season.
The only thing that changed (and it happened on the Hanifin and Tanev deals too) is everyone out there's imaginations ran wild on pipe dream returns and through the course of discourse, those pipe dreams got confused as legit valuations.
I'm not saying Conroy nailed everything, but in general when you look at all his trades, and compare them to similar trades in year, and historic, he has got fair or good value on almost every trade, and certainly on all the important ones. Any disappointment we have on this return is not based in reality.
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Expecting more than this from Markstrom was lunacy (looking at you, Athletic).
He's an inconsistent, 35 year old (will be by the midway point of his 1st season with NJ) goaltender, and he just garnered one of the largest returns we've seen for a goaltender in the last 15 years.
"Fail!" - Athletic
I knew when I saw all the discussions here of getting the 10th pick in a Markstrom trade that plenty here were going to be disappointed in the actual return. Flames were never going to get a top 10 pick for a 34 year old goaltender. This is a pretty good return for a goaltender that's only good every second season. Let's not forget that a year ago we were discussing if the guy had any trade value whatsoever coming off an abysmal season.
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Regarding the Athletic scoring - first, no surprise, as they hate everything the Flames do. Every time I see something from the Athletic, my immediate reaction is that it comes off like it was written by an Oiler fan (which it probably was).
Having said that, the sentiment is somewhat understandable from the old view of a trade which is: whoever gets the best player wins. Markstrom is the best player in the deal (at the moment), so sure.
However, things are different in the cap era: the player's salary is a HUGE determinant in their value. Markstrom is going to be 35 in January and has a contract of $6M per. Great goalie, and he'll help the Devils, but you can't just ignore the money and the age.
The Flames got a 1st and a young defenseman with significant upside. And they gained $4M of cap space. And they (most likely) improved their own picks for next year. When you factor those things into the trade, there is no question that the Flames did well - I would argue very well. So anything short of A-, or at worst B+, is simply not understanding what they got in return, IMO.
he traded a guy who got 55 points last year for a guy who got 59 points (and is 6 years younger and costs less) and he got a third added and he has not won a trade
Don't like the return. Over 4m retained is worth 2/3 of that 1st rounder. But....I don't like markstrom much and don't think he's worth alot anyway. Excited for more Wolf.
Well, it's $3.75M returned. And that is worth a 2nd or a 3rd.
Bahl, a 2nd round pick who is now a full time NHLer at the age of 23, is EASILY worth the retention, and if he continues to develop, is worth much more than the retention.
So the return for Markstrom alone (excluding retention) is at least a 1st.
Pretty crazy that the kings traded for a goalie immediately after the markstrom deal went down.
I wonder what the offer for markstrom from the kings was?
CP would have been talking about how much of a pipe dream getting a 1st for Markstrom would have been at the start of last season. In fairness, that's partially because he was coming off a tough season. But regardless, this is 100% the type of deal for Markstrom most would have been very excited to get, and would have wanted Conroy to get last season.
The only thing that changed (and it happened on the Hanifin and Tanev deals too) is everyone out there's imaginations ran wild on pipe dream returns and through the course of discourse, those pipe dreams got confused as legit valuations.
I'm not saying Conroy nailed everything, but in general when you look at all his trades, and compare them to similar trades in year, and historic, he has got fair or good value on almost every trade, and certainly on all the important ones. Any disappointment we have on this return is not based in reality.
I think in fairness a lot of people were talking about Brian Elliott and Mike Smith returns (a 2nd or a 3rd and a B level prospect respectively). In that regard, for those people this return blew the doors off that (a 1st round pick and a 23 year old dman that has played the equivalent of almost 2 seasons in the NHL).
Regarding the Athletic scoring - first, no surprise, as they hate everything the Flames do. Every time I see something from the Athletic, my immediate reaction is that it comes off like it was written by an Oiler fan (which it probably was).
Having said that, the sentiment is somewhat understandable from the old view of a trade which is: whoever gets the best player wins. Markstrom is the best player in the deal (at the moment), so sure.
However, things are different in the cap era: the player's salary is a HUGE determinant in their value. Markstrom is going to be 35 in January and has a contract of $6M per. Great goalie, and he'll help the Devils, but you can't just ignore the money and the age.
The Flames got a 1st and a young defenseman with significant upside. And they gained $4M of cap space. And they (most likely) improved their own picks for next year. When you factor those things into the trade, there is no question that the Flames did well - I would argue very well. So anything short of A-, or at worst B+, is simply not understanding what they got in return, IMO.
The second half of this trade is what do the Flames do with the 4.15 million in saved cap space over the next two years. If they are able to use that to pick up a bad contract for some additional assets the return theoretically increases. The Coyotes got two 2nd round picks for taking on Patrik Nemeth’s 2.5 million for two years (5 million total).
If the Flames can pull off a Nemeth type deal for the same return the value of this trade in some regards ends up being
Markstrom for a 1st, two 2nds and Bahl (with an additional 3.3 milllion over two years to play with)
I knew when I saw all the discussions here of getting the 10th pick in a Markstrom trade that plenty here were going to be disappointed in the actual return. Flames were never going to get a top 10 pick for a 34 year old goaltender. This is a pretty good return for a goaltender that's only good every second season. Let's not forget that a year ago we were discussing if the guy had any trade value whatsoever coming off an abysmal season.
The conversations included adding a 2nd, or the 28thOA, or a player (Pospisil), assumed full retention, etc.
And it sounds like the 10th WAS on the table, but the Devils wanted Coronato included (glad Conroy didn't bite on that).
So it seems to me that the discussions weren't that far off the mark.
Were there people expecting too much? Of course. And there were people expecting too little. That is the nature of discussions. But overall, the conversations were pretty close to what happened.
