Former Flames player performance thread - 2022/23 season

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Winning percentage and points percentage are not the same thing. The Flames are higher in points percentage because of leading the league in points for OT losses.

Their win % is .457, which is just ahead of Vancouver's .455 and just behind St.Louis' .471.

Oh I see, so you just want to ignore some of the points they've earned, in order to support your narrative. Got it.

I mean, help me out here. It was you that brought up the standings, but when I went there to look at them, I couldn't find anywhere that ranked the teams by 'winning percentage'. Maybe a memo was issued from the league, explaining that, even though OTL points are listed in the standings, they don't actually count any more? No?

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Oh I see, so you just want to ignore some of the points they've earned, in order to support your narrative. Got it.

I mean, help me out here. It was you that brought up the standings, but when I went there to look at them, I couldn't find anywhere that ranked the teams by 'winning percentage'. Maybe a memo was issued from the league, explaining that, even though OTL points are listed in the standings, they don't actually count any more? No?

My narrative? Haha, sure. I really spun up a narrative in posting the league standings.

The Flames are 17th in the league in points. They're 17th in point%. They're 20th in win%. For a team that's in 'win now' mode, that's things not going great. It's just observation, not spinning up a narrative.

I can't take you seriously with this. It's too ridiculous.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Winning percentage and points percentage are not the same thing. The Flames are higher in points percentage because of leading the league in points for OT losses.

Their win % is .457, which is just ahead of Vancouver's .455 and just behind St.Louis' .471.

You are working really hard to make the Flames look worse here....shootout and OT losses are 1 of a possible 2 points in the NHL. Basically a tie .500. Neither way these games are resolved happen in the playoffs.

If anything it's unfortunate they don't have more points because of all the OT games.

Flames overall are below expectations so far but are still in a playoff spot and within a couple points of a divisional spot.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

That record last year is a 105pt pace which is far better than the 91pt pace they are playing to this year at the same time. It seems people go back and see the point totals were similar but forgot the Flames were shutdown by Covid in December and have played 7 more games this year vs last. The comments about the Flames not being in a playoff spot are not true based on points % as many teams had 5+ more games played than the Flames.

While true, the pessimists also clearly forgot about many details last year.

At the 35 game mark last year, they were far from being viewed as even a top 10 team. They lost multiple games in a row on different occasions, including going 1-5 in mid-late January before going on a tear in February (10-1) and March (9-4-3). I tried finding power rankings for Jan. 2022, the Flames ranked 14th in one, 18th in another.

After 35 games last year the Flames were 18-11-6.

After 35 games this year they are 16-12-7. Will they go 19-5-3 in Feb/March lime last year?

And last year our goalies had a combined 7 shutouts in the first 35 games last year. They have a combined 0 shutouts this season.

Trying to compare last year's team to this year's is a fools errand at this point in the season.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

My narrative? Haha, sure. I really spun up a narrative in posting the league standings.

The Flames are 17th in the league in points. They're 17th in point%. They're 20th in win%. For a team that's in 'win now' mode, that's things not going great. It's just observation, not spinning up a narrative.

I can't take you seriously with this. It's too ridiculous.

Where in the league standings does it show them as 20th?

Fun fact - if we properly account for OT games with a 3-2-1-0 standings system, we get the following:

CGY: 13-3-7-12, 52 pts
VAN: 10-6-3-14, 45 pts

So with the current standings, the Flames are 6 pts up on VAN, but if we use a system that better deals with OT games, they are 7 points up on VAN.

I can't take anyone seriously who pretends that regulation ties are equal to regulation losses. They aren't. They are awarded a point for a reason. Pretending that isn't true is what is ridiculous.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by dino7c

You are working really hard to make the Flames look worse here....shootout and OT losses are 1 of a possible 2 points in the NHL. Basically a tie .500. Neither way these games are resolved happen in the playoffs.

If anything it's unfortunate they don't have more points because of all the OT games.

Flames overall are below expectations so far but are still in a playoff spot and within a couple points of a divisional spot.

You are clearly working much harder than I am. I just posted standings. You're the one working to sugar coat them with stuff like "if anything it's unfortunate they don't have more points because ...".

It's comical that you don't see that.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

You are clearly working much harder than I am. I just posted standings. You're the one working to sugar coat them with stuff like "if anything it's unfortunate they don't have more points because ...".

It's comical that you don't see that.

You didn't just post the standings you posted standing that exclude OTL points...which aren't relevant to league standings at all. Multiple people have called you on it not just me.

You are acting like a shootout loss is the same as losing 5-0 in regulation, it's not.

Go look at the actual NHL standings...Flames in a playoff spot and a couple points out of a divisional spot.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Where in the league standings does it show them as 20th?

Fun fact - if we properly account for OT games with a 3-2-1-0 standings system, we get the following:

CGY: 13-3-7-12, 52 pts
VAN: 10-6-3-14, 45 pts

So with the current standings, the Flames are 6 pts up on VAN, but if we use a system that better deals with OT games, they are 7 points up on VAN.

I can't take anyone seriously who pretends that regulation ties are equal to regulation losses. They aren't. They are awarded a point for a reason. Pretending that isn't true is what is ridiculous.

I never pretended that regulation ties are equal to regulation losses. Looking at win % doesn't require reinterpretation of OT losses. They're totally distinct from each other. The percentage of games a team wins is just that. It's not statistical sleight of hand.

Yet here you are calling me ridiculous for just taking the data that's there in the records while you're dreaming up a system for calculating points that doesn't even exist in the league?

This is too rich. I'm done with you guys. I can't take the laughter.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I never pretended that regulation ties are equal to regulation losses. Looking at win % doesn't require reinterpretation of OT losses. They're totally distinct from each other. The percentage of games a team wins is just that. It's not statistical sleight of hand.

Yet here you are calling me ridiculous for just taking the data that's there in the records while you're dreaming up a system for calculating points that doesn't even exist in the league?

This is too rich. I'm done with you guys. I can't take the laughter.

LOL. Your winning percentage does not exist in the league standings. Literally. But you are so emotionally invested in your argument, that you can't even see what you're posting.

[dino7c]

You posted standings the NHL doesn't use for anything....to make them look worse.

[boogerz]

Milano was horrific in pre-season, but since the Cap signed him, he's put up 16 pts in 23 games playing on a line with Kuznetsov and Oshie

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

My narrative? Haha, sure. I really spun up a narrative in posting the league standings.

You did not post the league standings. The league does not rank teams by winning percentage. Standings are determined by points.

I can't take you seriously with this. It's too ridiculous.

Your argument is what's ridiculous.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I never pretended that regulation ties are equal to regulation losses. Looking at win % doesn't require reinterpretation of OT losses. They're totally distinct from each other. The percentage of games a team wins is just that. It's not statistical sleight of hand.

Yet here you are calling me ridiculous for just taking the data that's there in the records while you're dreaming up a system for calculating points that doesn't even exist in the league?

This is too rich. I'm done with you guys. I can't take the laughter.

As Dino7c pointed out the bolded doesn't tell the whole story.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You did not post the league standings. The league does not rank teams by winning percentage. Standings are determined by points.



Your argument is what's ridiculous.

Really?

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Win now mode not going so great at the moment...

Spoiler!

[JohnnyB]

To recap for you guys, here's the wild narrative I'm spinning up:

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Win now mode not going so great at the moment...

That's it. That's all.

In support, I pointed out that there are 16 teams in the league ahead of them in the rankings now, and 19 teams that are winning more frequently than them.

Does ranking 17th in the league for points and 20th for frequency of winning games meet your definition of 'win now mode is going great at the moment'?

I doubt many fans or people in the organization feel their results so far are going great for win now mode.

Who actually does think it is going great at the moment for a 'win now' team? Do you? I don't think it's super controversial.

A couple of posters are just turning a trivial point into a debate by implying I'm making some argument beyond the simple statement that win now mode isn't going great at the moment when that is in fact all I'm saying.

[Shazam]

Ah if only the league ranked by mcdavid points.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Let's get back on topic.

Tkachuk went to Florida to change the culture and beat Tampa in the playoffs. Might be hard to do if you don't make it.

Looks like the league's gave them 2 extra days off. While we head into the break with a back to back and come back the first day possible with a back to back.

[jroc]

I think it's fair... for instance, if it's the stretch drive going into the playoffs, and team A goes 0-0-10 for 10 points, while team B goes 5-5-0 for 10 points... who would you rather hitch your wagon too?

[Shazam]

Tampa can’t beat Florida if Florida isn’t in the playoffs.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by jroc

I think it's fair... for instance, if it's the stretch drive going into the playoffs, and team A goes 0-0-10 for 10 points, while team B goes 5-5-0 for 10 points... who would you rather hitch your wagon too?

If the first team took 10 top teams to overtime and the second team got wins off 5 bottom feeders, then I’d choose the first one.