2015-2016 Blue Jays Off-Season Thread

[Harry Lime]

The new television deal for the Arizona Diamondbacks that kicks in this year is for 1.5 Billion over 20 years, with a stake in the local Fox affiliate. The approximate value is 80M a year in American dollars. It's safe to say that the Toronto, and by extension Canadian, market is much more lucrative, and it is all kept in house by Rogers. 80M American vs. Mike down the hall.

Rogers crying poor is never going to fly, no matter the state of the dollar. This is because the value of the television rights would always remain static, and in American dollars, and they don't have to pay any of it. They really could spend like sailors if they wanted to.

135M Bluejay payroll
- 80M television rights value
65M comparative investment

They could be in the Yankees/Dodgers world of spending, and still have the commitment of the Diamondbacks. What they are saying is just spin. The baseball world should be complaining about the Canadian juggernaut that has way to much spending power, and this is an American game, rahrahrah...

[JayP]

Originally Posted by VERVE

I go to the car dealership and make an offer that is not ridiculouly low but present a respectable value. At least you make an offer (if you really want that car). By offering Price 25-28MM to start negotiation is not 1/2 of of the MSRP. Price signed for about 30-31 MM.

Regarding Cliff Lee:
"Cliff Lee signs a $120 million contract with the Phillies...The Yankees offered Lee a six-year, $138 million contract with a vesting option that increased the value to $154 million, according to ESPN.com...." By Todd Zolecki/MLB.com |

The Cliff Lee was an example of signing for less (supposedly going against the grain of the MLBPA which is a no no as you have indicated). It was not an example of a home town discount which I have explained twice in past posts.

I never suggested that Price left 70+ million on table (again you missed the point). My point was they start somewhere with a number 25MM-28MM and negotiate from there on. Maybe Price would have signed for less, who knows, do you know for certain he would not give a home town discount to sign. Price's agent clearly stated there was "not a formal offer presented at all"...I am no Kreskin majoring in english lit but that means no formal offer was given- nada...It is foolish to guess otherwise. You have to go by the facts given by Price's agent rather than guessing that there must be some sort of offer presented. I have not heard the Jays denying it, have you?

I think we have beaten this dead horse too many times. Let's agree to disagree.

First off, you are including the option on the Yankees deal and excluding it for the Phillies deal. If you want to include the option (taken from the same link you quoted) its 135m vs. 154m. And I'm sure the MLBPA was thrilled.

More importantly, regarding Price, this isn't hockey. Dollar per year figures are irrelevant. The total dollar value is king in baseball since guys typically only get one crack at a big free agent contract. So when you say the Jays could've offered 25-28 mil it doesn't matter. Could they do it for 7 years (175m-196m total)? Not a chance. They could probably do it for 5 years (125m-140m) but that barely keeps Price's agent on the line.

[VERVE]

Originally Posted by JayP

First off, you are including the option on the Yankees deal and excluding it for the Phillies deal. If you want to include the option (taken from the same link you quoted) its 135m vs. 154m. And I'm sure the MLBPA was thrilled.

More importantly, regarding Price, this isn't hockey. Dollar per year figures are irrelevant. The total dollar value is king in baseball since guys typically only get one crack at a big free agent contract. So when you say the Jays could've offered 25-28 mil it doesn't matter. Could they do it for 7 years (175m-196m total)? Not a chance. They could probably do it for 5 years (125m-140m) but that barely keeps Price's agent on the line.

There you go again speaking like you know what the MLBPA is thinking. So it is 20 MM Cliff Lee left on the table; my point still stands. He signed for less despite your assertion that players will not go against the grain of the MLBPA to sign for less. cliff did just that.

It is not about if they could match BoSox's offer, it's about even trying to provide a respectable offer (and please don't imply that the Jays did try).

[Parallex]

In actual Blue Jays off-season news they've signed Darwin Barney.

Nice pick-up since Travis will likely start the year on the DL and this gives them a RH platoon partner for Goins who provides the same level of wizard like fielding prowess.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by JayP

Lots of chatter on Twitter (especially Mike Wilner) that the Jays aren't hedged at all from exchange rate volatility. So can we end the crap about how cheap Rogers is? To have basically the same payroll as last opening day with the dollar dipping about 15 cents since this time last year is a pretty serious reinvestment of last year's profits.

Shapiro even confirmed that the Jays budget for future years isn't set in advance - its all based on the volatility of the dollar and yearly revenue.

You are grasping at straws on the FX hedging. Go to SEDAR, pull up the Rogers financial statements, accompanying notes, and MD&A and take a look for yourself. Mike Wilner doesn't have a clue when it comes to hedging, he's a baseball writer, who surprise, surprise, is employed by Rogers. We all know Rogers would never use one of their media outlets to put a positive spin on their actions.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Parallex

In actual Blue Jays off-season news they've signed Darwin Barney.

Nice pick-up since Travis will likely start the year on the DL and this gives them a RH platoon partner for Goins who provides the same level of wizard like fielding prowess.

Good signing. I really like Barney as a utility infielder.

[transplant99]

Jose Bautista ‏@JoeyBats19 13m13 minutes ago
People ask...what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window & wait for spring.

[VERVE]

I wished AA would have remained with the Jays so he could finished what he had started-building a team to be a contender. Who really knows why he left but from what was printed mostly because of lesser flexibility or power to make moves "autonomously". Beeston always had AA's back. Although the Jays still kept the good prospects from trades to get better, there were some good ones traded nonetheless and I hope it will not come back and bite our a$$. It was tough watching Syndergaard pitching or D'Arnaud hitting hr for the Mets esp when Dickey's sometimes less than average performance was hurting us (except perhaps the last 12 regular games of last season when he was performing better).

[JayP]

Originally Posted by VERVE

There you go again speaking like you know what the MLBPA is thinking. So it is 20 MM Cliff Lee left on the table; my point still stands. He signed for less despite your assertion that players will not go against the grain of the MLBPA to sign for less. cliff did just that.

It is not about if they could match BoSox's offer, it's about even trying to provide a respectable offer (and please don't imply that the Jays did try).

I never made that assertion. I said there's pressure and it's a factor for top level free agents. One guy signing for less doesn't negate that. Although it's funny how you switch from dollars/year to total contract value to fit your narrative. If you break it down to the dollars/year you keep talking about, Cliff Lee actually took the highest deal ($22.5m AAV vs. $22m AAV).

You keep talking about respectable offers, but were talking in terms of AAV. Like I said, you saying the Jays should offer him $28m per season means nothing. If that's for the 7 years he got that's $196m and the Jays clearly would've made that offer. If that's for 5 years, that's for $140m and there's no point throwing that out there when the market for top tier pitchers was set at $200 million last season. There was no way the Jays were coming close to $200m so their exclusive signing window gave them no advantage and had zero impact on the negotiations.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

You are grasping at straws on the FX hedging. Go to SEDAR, pull up the Rogers financial statements, accompanying notes, and MD&A and take a look for yourself. Mike Wilner doesn't have a clue when it comes to hedging, he's a baseball writer, who surprise, surprise, is employed by Rogers. We all know Rogers would never use one of their media outlets to put a positive spin on their actions.

Right, it's all a big conspiracy. You do realize that Rogers being hedged is different than the Toronto Blue Jays being hedged, right? The company doesn't solely exist to funnel money to the Toronto Blue Jays.

Here's a link with Shapiro basically saying the same thing.
http://m.bluejays.mlb.com/news/artic...-talks-payroll

He's probably in on the conspiracy too. He must because Wilner's tweets were relaying information from conversations with Shapiro.

If you want to get mad at someone, get mad at your heroes AA and Beeston. If the Jays aren't hedged, it's because they didn't have the foresight to realize the dollar is going to fluctuate. The Jays are just lucky that they racked in the dough last year otherwise we are probably talking about a $100m payroll.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by JayP

Right, it's all a big conspiracy. You do realize that Rogers being hedged is different than the Toronto Blue Jays being hedged, right? The company doesn't solely exist to funnel money to the Toronto Blue Jays.

Here's a link with Shapiro basically saying the same thing.
http://m.bluejays.mlb.com/news/artic...-talks-payroll

He's probably in on the conspiracy too. He must because Wilner's tweets were relaying information from conversations with Shapiro.

If you want to get mad at someone, get mad at your heroes AA and Beeston. If the Jays aren't hedged, it's because they didn't have the foresight to realize the dollar is going to fluctuate. The Jays are just lucky that they racked in the dough last year otherwise we are probably talking about a $100m payroll.

There is no argument here. The extent to which Rogers is hedged is a matter of public record, and they are heavily hedged against currency fluctuations. Maybe you know more than a big 4 Public Auditing Firm which audits the books and records of the company.

If Rogers is unwilling to use some of that hedging to help out the Jays, it just goes to further prove what a lot of people here are saying, and what a disgrace they are as owners.

I'm well aware Rogers is not there to fund money to the Blue Jays. It's the exact opposite, they are a vacuum to suck up all the money out of the Jays they can. Right now i'm assuming they are taking all the profits the Jays made last year and using that to fund their absolutely horrible investment in the NHL (my thoughts only, nothing to support that).

[Parallex]

For anyone looking for news and not debates over whether the Jays adaquately hedged in their currency exchange... The Jays made a selection in round 1 of the Rule 5 draft. RHP Joe Biagini, for the life of me I don't get why... scouting reports are that he's a savvy pitcher with just Ok stuff and projects as a workhorse inning-eating type, not exactly the type of guy I'd make a Rule 5 selection on although maybe he's a selection that they're betting they can put in the minors without the originating team wanting back. Prefer going for Fireballers that you can stash in the bullpen for blowout mop up work.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Parallex

For anyone looking for news and not debates over whether the Jays adaquately hedged in their currency exchange... The Jays made a selection in round 1 of the Rule 5 draft. RHP Joe Biagini, for the life of me I don't get why... scouting reports are that he's a savvy pitcher with just Ok stuff and projects as a workhorse inning-eating type, not exactly the type of guy I'd make a Rule 5 selection on although maybe he's a selection that they're betting they can put in the minors without the originating team wanting back. Prefer going for Fireballers that you can stash in the bullpen for blowout mop up work.

What are the implications of making a Rule 5 selection?

[KootenayFlamesFan]

This thread is pretty depressing to read sometimes.

[VERVE]

Originally Posted by JayP

I never made that assertion. I said there's pressure and it's a factor for top level free agents. One guy signing for less doesn't negate that. Although it's funny how you switch from dollars/year to total contract value to fit your narrative. If you break it down to the dollars/year you keep talking about, Cliff Lee actually took the highest deal ($22.5m AAV vs. $22m AAV).

You keep talking about respectable offers, but were talking in terms of AAV. Like I said, you saying the Jays should offer him $28m per season means nothing. If that's for the 7 years he got that's $196m and the Jays clearly would've made that offer. If that's for 5 years, that's for $140m and there's no point throwing that out there when the market for top tier pitchers was set at $200 million last season. There was no way the Jays were coming close to $200m so their exclusive signing window gave them no advantage and had zero impact on the negotiations.

If you look at the bonus of vesting options, he took less money 22.5MM Phillies vs 25.6MM Yankees.

I had suggested 25MM-28MM as a starting point for negotiations but again who really knows where it would end up given that Price enjoyed his time in TO and was disappointed (according to his agent) that no offer was presented. He might have taken a discount to stay in TO since the line-ups were still intact to go further in the post season.

I think we can let this poor dead horse lay in peace.

[VERVE]

dbl post

[zukes]

Originally Posted by Parallex

For anyone looking for news and not debates over whether the Jays adaquately hedged in their currency exchange... The Jays made a selection in round 1 of the Rule 5 draft. RHP Joe Biagini, for the life of me I don't get why... scouting reports are that he's a savvy pitcher with just Ok stuff and projects as a workhorse inning-eating type, not exactly the type of guy I'd make a Rule 5 selection on although maybe he's a selection that they're betting they can put in the minors without the originating team wanting back. Prefer going for Fireballers that you can stash in the bullpen for blowout mop up work.

Plan the parade!!!

I would guess that he ends up back with the originating club or the Jays pay them an undisclosed amount of cash to let him stay and be minor league fodder.

This team is truly disappointing.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

What are the implications of making a Rule 5 selection?

Costs 50k, Immediately added to the 40 man, has to stay on the 25 Man the whole season or be offered back to the original team for 25K.

Often teams will work out a deal if they later want send them down to avoid the reclaim.

The Jays had no one claimed off of their eligible list.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by zukes

Plan the parade!!!

I would guess that he ends up back with the originating club or the Jays pay them an undisclosed amount of cash to let him stay and be minor league fodder.

This team is truly disappointing.

Why is this disappointing? This move happens regardless of whether the Jays mortgaged the future for Price or not. The Jays need depth as an organization and this is an attempt to fix that. Not every move can be spectacular.

Lots of speculation that Biagini is a potential replacement for Hendriks. Middle relief that is able to give you multiple innings (different role than the swingman which is likely where Chavez ends up). Based on the Jays' interest and near-contract with Petit it looks like they feel this is a role that needs to be filled. Either way, it's likely the Jays find a deal to move him down to AAA without losing him and it gives the organization some starting pitching depth at that level (and potential options in the event of multiple injuries).

Biagini does seem to have a lot in common with Hendriks. Scouting reports say he's a low 90's fastball guy, but can touch 96. Seems like the kind of guy that would benefit from moving to the pen and would see a nice boost in velocity from not trying to conserve energy.

[zukes]

Originally Posted by JayP

Why is this disappointing? This move happens regardless of whether the Jays mortgaged the future for Price or not. The Jays need depth as an organization and this is an attempt to fix that. Not every move can be spectacular.

Lots of speculation that Biagini is a potential replacement for Hendriks. Middle relief that is able to give you multiple innings (different role than the swingman which is likely where Chavez ends up). Based on the Jays' interest and near-contract with Petit it looks like they feel this is a role that needs to be filled. Either way, it's likely the Jays find a deal to move him down to AAA without losing him and it gives the organization some starting pitching depth at that level (and potential options in the event of multiple injuries).

Biagini does seem to have a lot in common with Hendriks. Scouting reports say he's a low 90's fastball guy, but can touch 96. Seems like the kind of guy that would benefit from moving to the pen and would see a nice boost in velocity from not trying to conserve energy.

It's not a disappointing move in and of itself, but it is disappointing that this is the only move the Jays made at the winter meetings.