2014 Training Camp Cuts. UPD: Oct 5 - Baertschi, Jooris and Ortio cut

[saillias]

A shot of tequila when he mentions JBo.

[PeteMoss]

Fun fact: Setoguchi - the ultra plug who was terrible last year - would have been 7th in scoring (by points and goals) among forwards on the Flames last year.

[Azhouse]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Will Mason Raymond score more goals than Baertschi? or have more upside potential?

I don't think Sven is ready so I think the answer to this right now is yes.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

What I'm confused is to why people think Sven should be on the team after this pre season? He was incredibly un-remarkable and did not stand out at all. That's also a backhanded compliment, because he also didn't stand out in a bad way either. But anyone who feels Sven distinguished himself from his competition is kidding themselves. Those upset over his current demotion seem to be formulating their positions on two things:

1. He was told to work harder all over the ice and get stronger. Which he did seemingly improve, which is great. But apparently that should mean that that is all Sven needed to do to earn his spot, just be better and stronger than he was last year? That doesn't make sense to me. Just because those were primary areas of focus, doesn't mean improvements equal guaranteed NHL ice time.

2. Other people on the team were equally as "average" or un distinguishable as Sven was. This is also true in my opinion. But there really is no weaker reason to put Sven on the team than others also weren't awesome.

Fact is, Sven is easier to send down than some of the other players on the roster right now that also didn't distinguish themselves. It's also a fact that Sven hasn't "worn" out the benefit he can get from the AHL, and still has tones to learn and gain from playing down there. The same can't be said for some of the other assets that are being evalutated, especially when it comes to their potential value to the club. People are getting too black and white about the importance of the opening night roster, and what the Flames brass meant when they said spots would go to those who earned them. This roster is not going to be set in stone I doubt for the entire season, with players moving up and down, and I'm sure sometimes the Flames will have to do a few things with players that may have earned a different result while they "asset manage" for the long time benefit of the club.

It's going to be a really long season if every single move gets micro analyzed by the fans and everyone cries shenanigans on the Flames brass simply because anaylzing a move in isolation could lend its self to an argument that they aren't being fair or giving the youth the chances they've earned. Probably best to maybe do a review near the end of the year and see if we feel the Flames in General had the right focus and generally did what they said they would, versus freaking out over every move individually fits into the realm of exactly what they said would happen.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Granlund deserves a shot for sure, but personally every sign I've seen indicates Bennett needs to go down to Jrs. Yes, the guy is skilled and there's some magic there, but his body just isn't anywhere close to NHL-ready yet. The guy has gone through two injuries in a pre-season....is that not the perfect indicator of his body just not being able to play his game at the NHL level just yet? We always laugh at the Oilers rushing their physically immature players...I think keeping up Bennett would be doing exactly that.

He already got a taste of the NHL, there's really no need for more. Every game he plays now takes a position of a more deserving player like Granlund.

I look at Bennett the same as you but maybe the Flames see it differently and he gets his 9 games. For either one though we need to make space on the roster.

[PeteMoss]

Exactly. Sven worked hard and in general looked better than he did last year. But when he makes this team, he's going to need to produce offensively. One point in 5 games won't cut it if you're trying to steal a job.

[TheDebaser]

Treliving's comments really lead me to believe that Calgary will be moving out some bodies within the week. I think he's just managing his assets atm and that Baertschi will be up with the big club shortly. Just a feeling I get.

[Red Menace]

Never understood why the Flames have misjudged and mishandled one of their greatest assets so poorly. Sven was playing very well in his limited ice time last year, better than many vets, and just as well as golden boy Monahan...yet Burke goes out of his way to criticize him, and then send him to the minors. He comes back this camp and is clearly one of the better forwards on the ice....and they send him down again. It's likely they are trying to break his spirit or something. If anyone thinks he needs more time in the minors they are delusional...

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Players from last season that are gone:

Cammalleri
Stempniak
Westgarth
Galiardi
Tanguay
Sarich

Strange... I don't remember any of those players being cut from the team because Monahan took their job.
Monahan made the team last year because there was an opening for him and he proved he was NHL ready.... not because he beat out a vet for the position.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Fun fact: Setoguchi - the ultra plug who was terrible last year - would have been 7th in scoring (by points and goals) among forwards on the Flames last year.

What is this supposed to prove? That the Flames sucked?

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Fun fact: Setoguchi - the ultra plug who was terrible last year - would have been 7th in scoring (by points and goals) among forwards on the Flames last year.

If he's only getting 3rd line minutes that's normal, if he's getting 2nd line minutes that's below average.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

What I'm confused is to why people think Sven should be on the team after this pre season? He was incredibly un-remarkable and did not stand out at all. That's also a backhanded compliment, because he also didn't stand out in a bad way either. But anyone who feels Sven distinguished himself from his competition is kidding themselves. Those upset over his current demotion seem to be formulating their positions on two things:

1. He was told to work harder all over the ice and get stronger. Which he did seemingly improve, which is great. But apparently that should mean that that is all Sven needed to do to earn his spot, just be better and stronger than he was last year? That doesn't make sense to me. Just because those were primary areas of focus, doesn't mean improvements equal guaranteed NHL ice time.

2. Other people on the team were equally as "average" or un distinguishable as Sven was. This is also true in my opinion. But there really is no weaker reason to put Sven on the team than others also weren't awesome.

Fact is, Sven is easier to send down than some of the other players on the roster right now that also didn't distinguish themselves. It's also a fact that Sven hasn't "worn" out the benefit he can get from the AHL, and still has tones to learn and gain from playing down there. The same can't be said for some of the other assets that are being evalutated, especially when it comes to their potential value to the club. People are getting too black and white about the importance of the opening night roster, and what the Flames brass meant when they said spots would go to those who earned them. This roster is not going to be set in stone I doubt for the entire season, with players moving up and down, and I'm sure sometimes the Flames will have to do a few things with players that may have earned a different result while they "asset manage" for the long time benefit of the club.

It's going to be a really long season if every single move gets micro analyzed by the fans and everyone cries shenanigans on the Flames brass simply because anaylzing a move in isolation could lend its self to an argument that they aren't being fair or giving the youth the chances they've earned. Probably best to maybe do a review near the end of the year and see if we feel the Flames in General had the right focus and generally did what they said they would, versus freaking out over every move individually fits into the realm of exactly what they said would happen.

Of course it is going to be a long season when the team is going to lose a lot.



If the fans don't do the micro analysis associated with young player development and potential what should they do? Come back in a year or two when the team actually is solid NHL lineup basically set?

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

Never understood why the Flames have misjudged and mishandled one of their greatest assets so poorly. Sven was playing very well in his limited ice time last year, better than many vets, and just as well as golden boy Monahan...yet Burke goes out of his way to criticize him, and then send him to the minors. He comes back this camp and is clearly one of the better forwards on the ice....and they send him down again. It's likely they are trying to break his spirit or something. If anyone thinks he needs more time in the minors they are delusional...

Nothing in your post is remotely accurate from you saying he's been as good as Monahan to him being one of the best forwards this year at camp.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

Never understood why the Flames have misjudged and mishandled one of their greatest assets so poorly. Sven was playing very well in his limited ice time last year, better than many vets, and just as well as golden boy Monahan...yet Burke goes out of his way to criticize him, and then send him to the minors. He comes back this camp and is clearly one of the better forwards on the ice....and they send him down again. It's likely they are trying to break his spirit or something. If anyone thinks he needs more time in the minors they are delusional...

Flames management can never hope to live up to the revisionist history of the fans.

Sven was not great at all last year. I think he looked a great deal better in training camp this year, but still some room to grow. Unfortunately for him, Gaudreau came in and rocketed by. But I stand by my prediction that Baertschi finishes the year in Calgary. How soon he gets here depends both on his own play in Adirondack and the play of some guys getting extra looks up in Calgary.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

The cuts to me were expected based on the way contract statuses were going into camp. There was 1 spot for a rookie out of camp, and we all knew it going in. I think everyone was just hoping that there would be a lot more than 1 spot for all the young guys and it just wasn't the case.

That being said, I imagine that throughout the course of the year the roster will change, just like it did last year. Gaudreau has obviously made the team which is more than I was expecting going into camp. Can we not look at the positives and be happy with short term progress?

I think just about everyone can use more time in the AHL right now. Maybe not a lot of time for some, but even 10-20 dominating games for certain players would be beneficial to get them over the hump.

Ortio was always slated to be the 3rd man. No big shock.

Jooris was one of the final cuts in an extremely competitive camp. I don't know how he could be disappointed by that situation.

Baertschi really wanted to come to camp with a complete game that is translatable to the NHL. Did he do that? Yes. Was he better than anyone besides Setoguchi? Debatable. I'm ok with giving Seto 10-20 games or so to see what he can offer, but if he doesn't pick it up and Sven dominates in the AHL, it's an easy decision for management to dump him and call up Baertschi. The disconnect probably comes from Sven simply wanting to be on the NHL roster to start the year, even if that was the press box, but the management wants him to make the team as a top 6 winger and not spend time in the press box. I think it's just a matter of consistency of play over time for Sven at this point. Had a good camp but needs to show it wasn't just a temporary change for him to be an NHL player.

This whole roster thing will take most of the season to shake out.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Of course it is going to be a long season when the team is going to lose a lot.



If the fans don't do the micro analysis associated with young player development and potential what should they do? Come back in a year or two when the team actually is solid NHL lineup basically set?

They should wait until after a reasonable amount of moves get made this season before declaring the brass liars or not focusing on the rebuild. Like everything it's a sum of the parts that count, not a single events in isolation.

Don't confuse me saying don't micro analyze with not having an opinion on individual moves, just don't have over the top opinions based on solitary events.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

The cuts to me were expected based on the way contract statuses were going into camp. There was 1 spot for a rookie out of camp, and we all knew it going in. I think everyone was just hoping that there would be a lot more than 1 spot for all the young guys and it just wasn't the case.

Funny... when I heard the coaches come out with "Always Earned, Never Given" I thought that applied to the vets too and there could be more than one rookie making the team this year.

... stupid me...

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

This whole roster thing will take most of the season to shake out.

Case in point, Paul Byron. Two full years in the AHL, and three half years. His first three NHL call-ups weren't outstanding. Last year was year five of his pro career. Started in the A, but came up again, and stepped his game up significantly. He earned a spot with the Flames to start this season.

He is also 25 - three years older than Baertschi. We'd all like Sven to be ahead of where he is, but he is still growing and developing as a player. Like Byron, he will get a recall and he will get another chance. Hopefully he grabs it.

[MissTeeks]

“@SUNRandySportak: Treliving re: today's uproar : “Trust that people who deserve to be here will be here at some point and people that don't, won't.” #Flames”

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Strange... I don't remember any of those players being cut from the team because Monahan took their job.
Monahan made the team last year because there was an opening for him and he proved he was NHL ready.... not because he beat out a vet for the position.

What, don't remember Blair Jones? He had some diehard fans here.