2014 Training Camp Cuts. UPD: Oct 5 - Baertschi, Jooris and Ortio cut

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Randy Sportak @SUNRandySportak · 40m 40 minutes ago "He noticed a winger stayed who had no points in five games and looked more AHLer than he did."

"At least, I'm guessing he noticed. Everybody in the city did.

"Just relaying how I see the mindset after a conversation. Time will tell what happens. Likely will be different roster Nov 1"

Wow - hadn't seen that comment before. Ok, I retract my prior post.

Kind of confusing though - did Baertschi actually say that, or is Sportak putting words in his mouth? It looks to me like Sportak is being extremely irresponsible here.

But if Baertschi did say that, it would be much more concerning than the other comments.

[killer_carlson]

I think it's Sportak saying that everyone in the city saw how poorly Setoguchi played.

I don't think Sven said it.

[Soliak]

Seems like it's Svens birthday today too. Bad luck bromigo.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

Yeah I don't see what's the major malfunction here. Who really cares what the opening day roster looks like?

The players themselves care! Especially when it comes to salary. Sven will get paid $70k per season in the AHL instead of $833k in the NHL. It might not seem like a huge deal to us (because it is not our money), but it definitely hurts the players. In particular when there is money to be had in other leagues such as the KHL.

Also, neither of us really knows what promises and encouragements are made to players behind closed doors, we just accept it as a part of the business. *Pure speculation* In my eyes the message Baertschi was receiving drastically changed when Feaster got fired. As a result, I can see why he's frustrated, especially if he changed most of his game just to please management.

Finally, I understand that all the NHL prospects are in the same boat, and sooner or later they will have to develop mental toughness. I just hope and trust that the Flame's management knows what it is doing. For my part I will keep enjoying the games and instead of managing the team!

[saillias]

Holy fata the scorn over Baertschi's disappointment. This is why hockey players are boring.

[Cole436]

Oh the flip side, welcome to the NHL, Johnny!

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Cole436

Oh the flip side, welcome to the NHL, Johnny!

And a great pick for 171st overall today..I hope!

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Rerun

The original statement was that a rookie has a snowballs chance in hell of beating out a veteran for a place on the team.

My response to you was which Flames vets did Gaudreau, Monahan, Baertschi, Bouma, Brodie, and Backlund take jobs from?
Nobody.

If you are a rookie, and you're good enough, and there is an opening on the team, you have a pretty good chance of making the team. ... otherwise forget it.... you will be sent to the AHL until there is an opening either through injury or a vets contract has expired. Sending the vet to the AHL, instead of you, just ain't gonna happen...

Now normally I would probably agree with this because the team usually has a lot invested in a vet to just take the chance in losing him on waivers... but what has the team invested in Setoguchi? Nothing.

Players from last season that are gone:

Cammalleri
Stempniak
Westgarth
Galiardi
Tanguay
Sarich

replaced by: Bollig, Jones and Setoguchi (O'Brien in and out)

They have been replaced by Monahan, Bouma, Byron, and Gaudreau

And not only that, but the team has lowered the bar, as now the kids only have to pass Jones and Setoguchi.

And the following players could be gone by next year:

Setoguchi, Glencross, Jones, McGrattan, Byron

[Vulcan]

Going by what Treliving said there may still be hope for Granlund or Bennett. I'm not sure how soon either will be ready but it could be soon.

[dissentowner]

I see a lot of outrage over nothing. So Sven plays big minutes in the AHL, why is that a bad thing? We are not winning anything this year anyhow and a lot will change as the season goes. Sven has a lot to learn and he needs to take a hard look at a guy like Nyquist in Detroit to see how beneficial playing in the AHL can be.

[Tinordi]

Baertschi is exhibit a of why you don't give them the keys to early and don't get them to earn a regular spot. Feaster handed one to him and now his expectations, confidence are all out of whack.

[Wronskian]

Whats Bennetts status?

[DiracSpike]

Yeah I missed that too

[Enoch Root]

single

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Wronskian

Whats Bennetts status?

Injured but does not seem too serious. Should probably see his 9 games throughout the first 20 i assume.

[Skaloper]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Baertschi is exhibit a of why you don't give them the keys to early and don't get them to earn a regular spot. Feaster handed one to him and now his expectations, confidence are all out of whack.

The problem is he is not good enough to play top 6 minutes. The Flames are filled with players who can play 3rd/4th line roles better than him. As much as I would like to see Sven play he needs to step his game up.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Glencross - Stajan - Hudler
Gaudreau - Monahan - Jones
Backlund - Colbourne - Raymond
Bollig - Bouma - McGratton

Giordano - Brodie
Russel - Engeland
Smid - Wideman
Diaz

Scratches: Byron & Setoguchi

I quoted this for the line combination. Mine would look a little different but this is probably somewhat close to the lines that we'll see to start the season.

So, tell me, anyone, where would Baertschi fit? Which line does he deserve to be on? Are people upset because he should be on the top two lines, or just because he isn't on the NHL opening night roster? If you're upset for the latter, where does he fit on that lineup?

Is Baertschi going down because of Setoguchi or Jones or is Baertschi, a LW, going down because he didn't prove that he is beyond the question of a doubt going to be on the top two lines?

My take, he needs to be on the top two lines. If he isn't on the NHL roster to start, it's because he didn't prove he is at that spot yet so he's going do to likely play on the top line and show that he is ready to leave the AHL behind. I think he's better off getting tonnes of ice time, for however long it takes, in the AHL than sticking on the roster, just to appease fans about having a rookie take a vets spot where said vet will likely play 3rd line RW or sit on popcorn row. So, right now it looks like the AHL is best for him to get the time to keep developing into the top 2 LW the Flames are asking him to be.

Upset? Sure, I'd be upset if I was told, on my birthday, that I didn't get the job I wanted. I'm also certain he was told how close he is and/or what the short term and long term plans are.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Going by what Treliving said there may still be hope for Granlund or Bennett. I'm not sure how soon either will be ready but it could be soon.

Granlund deserves a shot for sure, but personally every sign I've seen indicates Bennett needs to go down to Jrs. Yes, the guy is skilled and there's some magic there, but his body just isn't anywhere close to NHL-ready yet. The guy has gone through two injuries in a pre-season....is that not the perfect indicator of his body just not being able to play his game at the NHL level just yet? We always laugh at the Oilers rushing their physically immature players...I think keeping up Bennett would be doing exactly that.

He already got a taste of the NHL, there's really no need for more. Every game he plays now takes a position of a more deserving player like Granlund.

[ricardodw]

For Baertschi's 21 st birthday he was solidly in the Flames starting line-up playing on a Line with Monahan and Hudler.

He basically lost his job because the Flames were still overloaded with small soft players and Colborne was moved to the wing.



There excuse for sending him down was a general complaint that he was not responsibly defensively...

He was a -4.

Somehow that does not seem so bad when compared to Stempniak's -21, (-14 when Baertschi got sent down) Cammalleri's -12 (-12 when sven got sent down, or Monahan's -20 ( Monahan was only -6 when sven got sent down). Colborne ended up -17 ... he was a -4 when he took over Sven's spot on the Monahan/Hudler line.

What are the Flames going to do to get Monahan and Colborne to play the 200 ft game?

With Gaudreau, Raymond, Hudler and Granlund there is not room for Sven on the Flames roster and he needs a change to a team that did not stock pile small guys.

If Baertschi had to clear waivers he would be claimed and be in the NHL for the whole year.

Will Mason Raymond score more goals than Baertschi? or have more upside potential?

Last year the Flames could have had Raymond playing in the opening line-up instead of Baertschi for 1M/yr. and went with Baertschi instead.

[PeteMoss]

CP drinking game - take a drink everytime ricardow mentions Stempniak.