Israel declares war on Hamas

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Pointman

It's a war. Not a special service operation. Leaving the enemy without water in order to enforce surrender has been a war move since antiquity. And yes, war is hell.

What a disgusting post but no surprise it comes from you.

"War is hell" says the guy who ran from his country because he was scared of war but has no problem defending Israel when they inflict genocide and war on people he doesn't value as human beings.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Could you dodge a question harder? I honestly just think you are incredibly misinformed on how poorly Israel treats them, and again, I'd tell you to watch John Oliver's episode if you care at all about reality. I think you right off settlers as not being part of Israel as an easy way to deflect. Yet Israeli settlers are supported with massive funds from Israeli taxpayers. Where does the responsibility stop?

I'm really not the one who's disinformed here. The fact that you would boil this down to white Israelis not liking dark skinned Palestinians is baffling. It's 100% you projecting your own issues onto this conflict. Jews spent centuries being persecuted for not being "white". Now that the political dynamic has changed, they are the ultimate white people.

The IDF posts photos of their casualties. These are their photos from July:



What about this group suggests that Isael is a country of only white people who would discriminate against Palestinians for reason of skin colour?

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by blankall

I'm really not the one who's disinformed here. The fact that you would boil this down to white Israelis not liking dark skinned Palestinians is baffling.

There's nothing baffling about it at all except you deliberately and unsurprisingly dishonestly misrepresenting a question in order to avoid answering the question asked.

Why don't you answer the question asked?

Originally Posted by Fuzz

What's the excuse for building settlements and treating existing residents like trash to be bulldozed?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by blankall

I'm really not the one who's disinformed here. The fact that you would boil this down to white Israelis not liking dark skinned Palestinians is baffling. It's 100% you projecting your own issues onto this conflict. Jews spent centuries being persecuted for not being "white". Now that the political dynamic has changed, they are the ultimate white people.

The IDF posts photos of their casualties. These are their photos from July:



What about this group suggests that Isael is a country of only white people who would discriminate against Palestinians for reason of skin colour?

Lol. Mkay, you will notice I put a question mark after skin color because no other reasons make sense either. Can we move on from an open ended question that seems to be the only thing that you can refute? I didn't boil anything down to skin color, that's you continuing on....



Anyway, did you watch the John Oliver piece yet? If not, I have to assume you are misinformed, because the alternative is saying treating humans like that is ok. And if you believe that..well...

[Fuzz]

And sure, maybe being white and having Jewish ancestry coloured my query. My bad on that. Your turn.

[PepsiFree]

I like that blankall was the only person to suggest that Israelis were white racists while simultaneously being enraged at the suggestion that Israelis were white racists lol.

Wacky stuff.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

What a disgusting post but no surprise it comes from you.

"War is hell" says the guy who ran from his country because he was scared of war but has no problem defending Israel when they inflict genocide and war on people he doesn't value as human beings.

Wait. You can't spend so much time on this topic and be this ignorant to the facts. It's Palestinians who inflict the war. From the very day the decision to create an Israel state was declared, their goal was to destroy it. Like Putin wants to destroy Ukraine because he believes in great Russia from the river (Amur) to the sea (Black). Everything, that has been happening in the region since the fall of 1947, is essentially attempts by Palestinians to destroy legit state of Israel.

[Pointman]

Jews are not white. During my school days in Moscow I was called "######" (black person) occasionally for being a Jew.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Bagor

You are not even capable of being honest with yourself.

Why? Gazans, as whole and not just Hamas, want to destroy Israel. It's well-known. They are very open about it with their "from the river to the sea" chants. It doesn't mean that I hate them. I just know that they want to destroy Israel. Hate is some emotional irrational feeling. I'm pretty rational about Palestine.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Such bologna. You were defending putin in 2022. That's a fact. Multiple posts of you defending putin.

This you?

I said, "I've been against Ukrainian war from the start.". And called you out to find the proof of the opposite. You came up with posts that were made before the war. I'm still waiting to see how I allegedly "flip flopped" on the Ukrainian war.


Furthermore, considering everything you quoted was written BEFORE Putin started Ukrainian war, I definitely stand by each of those posts:

How? Being power junkie and habitually murdering anyone who is even remotely a threat to his position does not necessarily imply that Putin is bad at actually doing his job. Conversely, a democratically elected president voted in by The People may turn out to be horrible president. This is why Russians don't want to fight for the sake of some Freedom and Democracy. They look at USA and how they've got to vote for either keeping Trump or replacing him with Biden, and no other options, and wonder whether Democracy and Free Elections would really give us any better leaders than what we have now

We are NOT trying to re-create a Soviet Union. We couldn't care less if Moldova is going to join us back. Or Kyrgyzstan. Crimea is a bit of a special case, as it is historically a Russian, not Ukrainian, land. And even Crimea annexation happened as a response to the coup that toppled an elected president. Otherwise though, no reasonable Russian wants a war just so we could look at the map and say "Look, Armenia is in the same country as us now, cool. I can go visit there. Wait, I could do it before the war anyway, so what was the point".

The following two posts below are no longer true oviously, but were true at the time they were written, that is before the war:

I get what you're saying, but when Russia did the same in Chechnya, westerners said it's a war. You can word it differently like "prevent Ukrainian regular army from moving into the region and massacre it's own people" (who are rebels and thus mostly criminals). Basically Putin's point is that he wants to prevent blood shed that would happen had he not recognized rebel republics. It is kinda phony, but not as egregious as it may sound

I would take Putin over both Bushes, Trump and Biden. Probably not over Obama and Clinton. Putin is also notorious for putting really skilled people in key government roles.

So, I will ask again. Where do I say anything even remotely close to supporting Russian war in Ukraine or flip flopped in my opinion about the war?

This is what I wrote on the first day of the war, when everyone was expecting Kyiv to fall within weeks:

Originally Posted by Pointman

This war is extremely unpopular in Russia and Putin knows it. He doesn't care about it. Crimea was very different. First, it was bloodless. Second bringing Crimea back was a popular idea. Third, the way Russia executed it did display a lot of skill of our army.

This one is ENTIRELY different. First, it's a bloody war. No reasonable man wants a war and Russia, despite Putin's propaganda, is not exactly filled with lunatics. Second, there are 2 millions Ukrainians living in Russia. I have met Ukrainians at every job I had and dated two Ukrainian girls. So did most of Russians. We don't want to kill Ukrainians. Third, we don't quite get the point of the war. It absolutely will not stop NATO, but rather make them come at us. It also would lead to severe economic consequences, at best.

Maje no mistake, what Putin is doing right now is extremely unpopular. It also does not seem to matter.

And regarding Putin, this is what I wrote in the first day of the war. When everybody expected a victory parade soon:

Originally Posted by Pointman

He absolutely ruined his legacy today, no matter the war outcome. And, provided he's still sane, he knows it. Russians are feared and shocked by these developments

So I definitely stand by every post I made since the first minute of the war and still challenge you to find any flip flopping. My point that I was against the war with Ukraine from the start still stands. Your accusations that I initially supported the war and flip flopped when I faced the risk of conscription are shown false.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Pointman was a Putin bootlicker long before 2022 right up until the spectre of him getting drafted emerged.

It makes sense that he switched so seamlessly to defending the Israeli government. He’ll continue on until there’s some threat of him having to do something for his country and then suddenly he’ll say something like “killing soldiers should be a war crime!”

That's completely not true, as displayed above. My opinion of Putin before the war was that he's power junkie, who is killing everyone able to threat his grasp on power. Yet he was capable president, who was much more able than Biden, Trump or Bush. That's perfectly reasonable pre-war opinion about Putin.

Since he started the war, I was absolutely against him. I wrote that he lost his marbles literally 11 minutes after he declared the war. And seven months before any risk of draft emerged:

Originally Posted by Pointman

This is absolutely terrifying and likely means that Putin has lost his marbles. He's mad like Captain Ahab

Claiming that it has anything to do with risk of getting drafted is insulting and next time you do it I would demand an apology.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

He’ll continue on until there’s some threat of him having to do something for his country and then suddenly he’ll say something like “killing soldiers should be a war crime!”

I'll address this part in a separate post. Killing soldiers should be a crime. Absolutely. Whole war should be a crime. There should not be such thing as "war crime", because it implies that war is somehow not a crime as long, as you conduct it by some rules. Starting the war with intention to destroy a state, such as Ukraine or Israel, just because you don't think the existence of the state is "fair" should be a crime. Anyone chanting "from the river to the sea" should be jailed (for encouraging destruction of a legit state).

[Pointman]

So, let me come back to the big picture. What's happening in Palestine has nothing to do with religion, race, history, or even feelings such as hate. In grand scheme of things, this situation is as old, as the world itself, and is purely political.

Israel is a pro-Western state right next to Arabs and Persians. Arabic and Persian political leaders hate the very fact that Israel exists. As shown above, they tried to destroy it from the very day the decision to create it was announced. Ukraine is a pro-Western country right next to Russia. Russian leadership hates the very fact, that it exists. If you want an older example - Portugal. It was a pro-England country right next to Spain and Spanish kings hated it. They also regularly tried to conquer it, with mixed results. Something closer to you? USA and pro-Communist Cuba right next to it. USA made over 20 self-admitted attempts to overthrow Cuban's government. Also think of Bay of Pigs or Caribbean missile crisis.

This is the root of the issue. Everything else is just a long list of real and fake atrocities, published by either side to blame its adversary. As well, as a long list of mispresented, half-truth or outright fabricated "historical facts" designed to prove, that Israel and Ukraine should have never existed to begin with.

[PsYcNeT]

The legendary septuple-post. I think it might be time to log off man.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

The legendary septuple-post. I think it might be time to log off man.

I dunno, more material this way.

Watching him claim not to be a Putin supporter after claiming elections didn’t matter because Putin was better than the majority of democratically elected leaders, downplay assassinations of politicians and journalists on foreign soil, and support his anti-LGBTQ laws is pretty funny.

Plus trying to hold both “Killing soldiers should be a crime” and “All Gazans are like Hamas and should be destroyed” in his head at the same time is fascinating to watch.

I don’t hate Gazans, but want them destroyed >
Gazans hate Israel because they want us destroyed >
Bombing cities isn’t a crime, it’s routine >
Killing soldiers should be a crime, if they’re soldiers on my side >
Everything I don’t agree with is lies, and all the lies I tell are your fault >

It’s gotta be confusing in there.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I dunno, more material this way.

Watching him claim not to be a Putin supporter after claiming elections didn’t matter because Putin was better than the majority of democratically elected leaders, downplay assassinations of politicians and journalists on foreign soil, and support his anti-LGBTQ laws is pretty funny.

Plus trying to hold both “Killing soldiers should be a crime” and “All Gazans are like Hamas and should be destroyed” in his head at the same time is fascinating to watch.

I don’t hate Gazans, but want them destroyed >
Gazans hate Israel because they want us destroyed >
Bombing cities isn’t a crime, it’s routine >
Killing soldiers should be a crime, if they’re soldiers on my side >
Everything I don’t agree with is lies, and all the lies I tell are your fault >

It’s gotta be confusing in there.

I can't imagine how mad he gets filling out a demographic survey when the only options are

White (Non Latino)
White Latino

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I dunno, more material this way.

Watching him claim not to be a Putin supporter after claiming elections didn’t matter because Putin was better than the majority of democratically elected leaders, downplay assassinations of politicians and journalists on foreign soil, and support his anti-LGBTQ laws is pretty funny.

Plus trying to hold both “Killing soldiers should be a crime” and “All Gazans are like Hamas and should be destroyed” in his head at the same time is fascinating to watch.

I don’t hate Gazans, but want them destroyed >
Gazans hate Israel because they want us destroyed >
Bombing cities isn’t a crime, it’s routine >
Killing soldiers should be a crime, if they’re soldiers on my side >
Everything I don’t agree with is lies, and all the lies I tell are your fault >

It’s gotta be confusing in there.

Fine, part of my real life job is explaining things, so I take it as an opportunity to practice..

1. I have been absolutely anti-Putin since the start of the war.

2. Before the war my feelings were mixed, but leaning more towards being a supporter. I stand by a comment that he was way more capable than Biden, Trump or Bush. I never downplayed his assassinations, I clearly acknowledged them. He clearly was not democratic at all. However, when Russians saw that USA has a choice between Trump and Biden, it was perfectly reasonable to ask whether democracy is any better at producing leaders than dictatorship. Since it's a Flames board, the sentiment was like in democracy you can choose between Gulutzan and Gilbert, while in dictatorship Darryl just walks in and seizes the reign. And the team (i.e. country) might be better off with the latter. For further clarity, everything in point 2 is moot point since the war.

3. I have been consistent on the matter of so called "war crimes". I reject the idea that the war is ok if conducted by some rules. The war, as whole, is horrible. But since Palestinians started it, Israel has to fight it, and we are not going to fight it in white gloves. As Ben Gurion put it, Arabs can afford to lose many wars. Israel can only afford to lose one.

4. I don't want a single Gazan to die. Nevermind woman or child, I don't want a single male adult to die either. I want them to stop this war and give up their goal of destroying Israel. But until they do, we have to fight this war. If it means, that children will die, so be it. If they don't like their children dying, surrender. It's the war they started, not us.

5. There are two millions of Arabs in Israel. I see them every day. My daughter's pediatrician is Arab. I talk with them in shops and on the streets. Sometimes I see Arabian kids playing soccer in local yard. You can Google it - Haifa has large Arabian population. I definitely don't hate them at all.

[GGG]

4 - I believe, since you job in the real world is to explain things, you need to explain the difference between a Gazan and Hamas and how do non-Hamas supporting Gazans accomplish this standard you have set?

[Fuzz]

Or those in the West Bank who have nothing to do with it, but have their homes bulldozed and or stolen.


It's a lot easier to make judgments when you can decide everyone in a group is guilty. Would you think it fair if Ukraine put bounties on your children's heads because they are Russian? How would that make you feel about Ukraine? What would you do to defend your family?

[Skootenbeeten]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Says the guy who pretended to care about LGBTQ issues but couldn’t name even one he cared about outside Gaza and then dismissed the concerns of LGBTQ Palestinians and Israelis as “lies.”

Oh damn the guy who supports Hamas while they toss LGBT off buildings because "Israel is bad too guys!!!"

Meanwhile LGBT in Palestine try and do everything to escape to Israel, wild.

Let's also not forget literally on Oct 7th this guy was already starting up the "both sides" argument in this thread. The blood wasn't even cold yet on murdered Israelis and this dude was doing damage control. You clowns make me laugh at your supposed moral authority.

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

What a disgusting post but no surprise it comes from you.

"War is hell" says the guy who ran from his country because he was scared of war but has no problem defending Israel when they inflict genocide and war on people he doesn't value as human beings.

Here comes the moral authority, the Trump supporter. From his basement he truly knows the rage of war, he has never run from a single CoD match. When his clan calls this man is on the front line with his controller ready. If you hadn't noticed the leader of the free world disagrees with your opinion on the "genocide", time to give your trope a rest.