Israel declares war on Hamas

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Pointman

That should have motivated Gazans even more, rather than less than Russians, to do something about Hamas.

Why didn't you stay in Russia and motivate your fellow Rusians to do something about Putin instead of leaving?

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Conjecture.

Let me play. My conjecture is Israel is itching to start firing into Syria and Lebanon and the US is going along with anything to get at Iran. Then it becomes clear who lies.

So. Stop presenting your conjecture as facts when all I am saying we have the claims of two terrorist organizations.

USA is not a terrorist organization. Neither is Israel, but this is beyond the point. Your claim that USA wants an Israel - Iran war contradicts everything USA has done.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

What should Gazans do about Hamas, why, and how?

A nation is responsible for how it behaves. They could have either figure out how to behave better or face consequences for behaving the way they are.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Pointman

It's perfectly correct. I said, that misfired Israel interceptor does not create such a big blast on the ground. That's factually correct statement. Its warhead is five times smaller, than Hezbollah's rockets. Different class of rockets too (surface to air rather than surface to surface). The difference is pretty significant. It doesn't require more than some basic rocketry knowledge to figure it out. Also, I generally don't tend to present myself as an expert. Instead, I look to support my points with logic and facts.

So how do you know that the explosion was an 11kg explosion vs a 50 kg explosion. How do you know the size of the blast wave coming from the 11kg one to know that video was a 50kg one. What is the destructive blast radius of each. What video did you use to compare the two.

You also appear in this post to be repeating a fallacy that the class of missle / rocket matters and not just payload. Where does this theory come from?

(At any point in time it’s okay for you to say you made a speculative comment and should have said I think the explosion is too big to be a iron dome missle as opposed to a definitive statement.)

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Why didn't you stay in Russia and motivate your fellow Rusians to do something about Putin instead of leaving?

Leaving actually IS doing something about Putin. If everyone did like me and left, there would be no war. The war is because of people, who didn't leave but rather went or sent others to war.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Neither is Israel

In the eyes of the ICC it is.
In the eyes of ICJ it is.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Leaving actually IS doing something about Putin. If everyone did like me and left, there would be no war. The war is because of people, who didn't leave but rather went or sent others to war.

What did you leaving accomplish? Maybe you're right. Leave israel and motivate your fellows Israelis to leave and the war will end.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Bagor

In the eyes of the ICC it is.
In the eyes of ICJ it is.

You need to get up to speed with basic facts. When did ICC and ICJ declared Israel to be a terrorist organization?

Worse yet, you claimed that only terrorist organization claims that the rocket was launched by Hezbollah. Which implies, that USA is a terrorist organization too somehow. See how much you have to bend the world to fit the theory that it was not Hezbollah.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Pointman

You need to get up to speed with basic facts. When did ICC and ICJ declared Israel to be a terrorist organization?

ICC. Charged with crimes against humanity with up coming arrest warrants about to be issued = terrorism.

ICJ - on trial for genocide. You do acknowledge that genocide equates to terrorism. Yes?

But anyways. You can have a go at convincing us otherwise.

Explain if the doctor below is describing terrorism or not and if not, why not?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1815348253212246440[/QUOTE]

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Pointman

See how much you have to bend the world to fit the theory that it was not Hezbollah.

I have never said it wasn't Hezbollah. Just that their denial claim is as plausible as the Israeli one. Two terrorist organizations. Who knows who to believe?

Bend the world? Like whilst there is zero evidence to support the claim that babies were beheaded on October 7th there is also no proof it is a lie?

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Bagor

ICC. Charged with crimes against humanity with up coming arrest warrants about to be issued = terrorism.

ICJ - on trial for genocide. You do acknowledge that genocide equates to terrorism. Yes?

But anyways. You can have a go at convincing us otherwise.

Explain if the doctor below is describing terrorism or not and if not, why not?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1815348253212246440

[/QUOTE]


Being in trial for genocide does not make a state genocidal, let alone terrorist organization.

The list of terrorist organizations is below. Hamas is there. Israel is not.

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/n...d-ntts-en.aspx

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Bagor

I have never said it wasn't Hezbollah. Just that their denial claim is as plausible as the Israeli one. Two terrorist organizations. Who knows who to believe?

Bend the world? Like whilst there is zero evidence to support the claim that babies were beheaded on October 7th there is also no proof it is a lie?

You need to brush up on what is terrorist organization. It's a strict term. By calling Israel that you are only showing that you are clueless. Call them a bag of stuff or whatever, if you will.

And you keep ignoring that USA said it's Hezbollah.

[Fuzz]

Likewise, in the 2008–09 conflict, Falk observed how the Goldstone Report concluded that the Israeli strategy was "designed to punish, humiliate and terrorize a civilian population".[52] Falk stated: "The civilian infrastructure of adversaries such as Hamas or Hezbollah are treated as permissible military targets, which is not only an overt violation of the most elementary norms of the law of war and of universal morality, but an avowal of a doctrine of violence that needs to be called by its proper name: state terrorism."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel...ored_terrorism


This is happening right now. Every day. Justify it however you want, but I can't imagine you could spend a week in Gaza and not feel absolutely terrified. But oh ya, they deserve it.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Pointman

You need to brush up on what is terrorist organization. It's a strict term. By calling Israel that you are only showing that you are clueless. Call them a bag of stuff or whatever, if you will.

And you keep ignoring that USA said it's Hezbollah.

LOL. It's not a strict term. Israel is committing acts of terrorism against the people of Gaza. You want it to be a strict term so you can excuse it.

Sniping at children. Terrorism
Burning children alive. Terrorism
Deliberately starving a population to death. Terrorism
Deliberately destroying water systems. Terrorism
Indiscr bombing of a population. Terrorism.

But not terrorism to you as in your mind this mass murder is justified as.....

Originally Posted by Pointman

The whole Gaza population is rotten to bones. It's not a healthy population with Hamas being few bad apples that you can surgically remove.

Need to kill them all.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Bagor

LOL. It's not a strict term. Israel is committing acts of terrorism against the people of Gaza. You want it to be a strict term so you can excuse it.

Sniping at children. Terrorism
Burning children alive. Terrorism
Deliberately starving a population to death. Terrorism
Deliberately destroying water systems. Terrorism
Indiscr bombing of a population. Terrorism.

But not terrorism to you as in your mind this mass murder is justified as.....


Need to kill them all.

You may repeat in every post that Israel SHOULD be designated as terrorist organization. That would be an opinion.

Saying that Israel IS a terrorist organization is simply wrong. It is like saying that Flames are 2004 Cup Winners because it was in. Even if it was indeed in, they are not champions. You could argue they should have been and you may have a case, but they are not. The term "terrorist organization" means that entity was listed as such. Israel never was, hence it is ñot a terrorist organization.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel...ored_terrorism


This is happening right now. Every day. Justify it however you want, but I can't imagine you could spend a week in Gaza and not feel absolutely terrified. But oh ya, they deserve it.

Wait... Falk stated: "The civilian infrastructure of adversaries such as Hamas or Hezbollah are treated as permissible military targets, which is not only an overt violation of the most elementary norms of the law of war and of universal morality, but an avowal of a doctrine of violence that needs to be called by its proper name: state terrorism"


Hamas and Hezbollah ARE terrorist organizations. He doesn't say "civilian infrastructure of Gaza or Lebanon". He says civilian infrastructure of Hamas and Hezbollah. How in the world it is NOT a permissible military target?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Wait... Falk stated: "The civilian infrastructure of adversaries such as Hamas or Hezbollah are treated as permissible military targets, which is not only an overt violation of the most elementary norms of the law of war and of universal morality, but an avowal of a doctrine of violence that needs to be called by its proper name: state terrorism"


Hamas and Hezbollah ARE terrorist organizations. He doesn't say "civilian infrastructure of Gaza or Lebanon". He says civilian infrastructure of Hamas and Hezbollah. How in the world it is NOT a permissible military target?

Are you trying to say he didn't mean what he said, because you are interpreting his own words as such? He clearly concludes, under no uncertain terms:


"but an avowal of a doctrine of violence that needs to be called by its proper name: state terrorism."


In case you need that clearer, he's calling what Israel does, targeting infrastructure required for the basics of life, state terrorism. Which is entirely reasonable.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Pointman

You may repeat in every post that Israel SHOULD be designated as terrorist organization. That would be an opinion.

Saying that Israel IS a terrorist organization is simply wrong. It is like saying that Flames are 2004 Cup Winners because it was in. Even if it was indeed in, they are not champions. You could argue they should have been and you may have a case, but they are not. The term "terrorist organization" means that entity was listed as such. Israel never was, hence it is ñot a terrorist organization.

That they don't belong to a western compiled list is a moot point. They are a terrorist organization on the basis of committing ongoing acts of terrorism against a population.

Do you agree or disagree that the following are acts of terrorism?
Sniping at children. Terrorism
Burning children alive. Terrorism
Deliberately starving a population to death. Terrorism
Deliberately destroying water systems. Terrorism
Indiscriminate bombing of a population. Terrorism.

If you disagree. Why?

And you ignored the clip and question.

Explain if the doctor below is describing terrorism or not and if not, why not?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1815348253212246440

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Bagor

That they don't belong to a western compiled list is a moot point. They are a terrorist organization on the basis of committing ongoing acts of terrorism against a population.

Do you agree or disagree that the following are acts of terrorism?
Sniping at children. Terrorism
Burning children alive. Terrorism
Deliberately starving a population to death. Terrorism
Deliberately destroying water systems. Terrorism
Indiscriminate bombing of a population. Terrorism.

If you disagree. Why?

And you ignored the clip and question.

Explain if the doctor below is describing terrorism or not and if not, why not?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1815348253212246440

Because this is not how entities end up being terrorist organizations. Even if I would agree, that Israel is a terrorist organization, it will not make them such. It would be no different than if we both agree that Backlund won Selke. It won't bring him Selke.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Are you trying to say he didn't mean what he said, because you are interpreting his own words as such? He clearly concludes, under no uncertain terms:


"but an avowal of a doctrine of violence that needs to be called by its proper name: state terrorism."


In case you need that clearer, he's calling what Israel does, targeting infrastructure required for the basics of life, state terrorism. Which is entirely reasonable.

I don't understand, based on his quote, how he arrived at that conclusion. Civilian infrastructure of Hamas is not what is required for basics of life. Civilian infrastructure of Gaza does. Hamas - unlike Israel - is a legit terrorist organization. Targeting its infrastructure is perfectly legit. That Falk dude is truly turning the world upside down if he's trying to say that targeting Hamas infrastructure is state terrorism. I guess, USA is a terrorist organization too now, for targeting Al Qaeda infrastructure..