Russia/Georgia back to war...

[Bagor]

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...8091149AA3VGTk

[Caged Great]

Education needs to change. (By that I mean that people need to become educated)

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Bagor

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...8091149AA3VGTk

"Should I be worrie (sic)"

Yes, very worried..... about your brain!

There is no way someone can be that stupid. Unless she is younger than 8 or something.

[Super-Rye]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Education needs to change. (By that I mean that people need to become educated)

Pfft, they'll never improve Education. The longer people are uneducated, the longer you keep terrible leaders in power.

[Itse]

Russia is doing exactly what it said it was going to do. Russians said pretty explicitly that if the west decides to ignore Russian opinions over Kosovo, they will do the same in Georgia. West does A, Russia does B. No surprise. Politics. Unfortunately people have to die while these little games are played.

Really I feel the Russians have kind of being pushed to this. They've been screaming YOU CAN'T JUST WALK OVER US DO YOU HEAR US IS ANYBODY EVEN LISTENING and found out that no, nobody really listens to them, except to make fun of them. They've been treated as a kind of a village idiot, or like something from the ever popular "those wacky Americans" news; anything they say is instantly condemned as proof of their incapability for reasonable behaviour. So basicly they have to remind the world why is it exactly that when a major military and political power talks, it's best to listen, properly.

It goes for the US, it goes for China and Russia is going to make damned sure it goes for them too.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Itse

Really I feel the Russians have kind of being pushed to this.

They must think that Christmas has come early with that bumbling, media whore idiot of a Georgian prime-minister giving them the green light to come in and wreck his country.

Can someone explain why he's sitting in front of an EU flag when he's giving interviews?

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by T@T

I take it it's not a very good source, sorry I'm slacking on my terrible news sites, I guess an explanation isn't needed


Fact remains, If the Ruskys protect the Iranians it could be a very very bad outcome

Zbigniew Brzezinski explained this once. Despite Iran's formidable natural resource base, her lack of infrastructure and international importance makes her of very little value in any alliance against the Americans. Essentially all Iran could do is piss off the rest.

[chris lindberg]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Can someone explain why he's sitting in front of an EU flag when he's giving interviews?

The flag of the European Union, shown above, flies all over in Georgia.

Georgia even has put its efforts to join the European Union on hold, realizing that the union will not be quick to admit it. Georgian Prime Minister Zurab Nogaideli said his country sensed an "enlargement fatigue" in the European Union and that discussing EU membership at present was "counterproductive," according to a May 2006 story on the Web site of the U.K. newspaper, The Independent. The European Union in 2004 added the Czech Republic, Estonia, Cyprus, Latvia, Lithuania, Hungary, Malta, Poland, Slovenia and Slovakia, and has at least five countries as candidates ahead of Georgia.

Georgia needs the European Union far more than the European Union needs Georgia. The union's Web site says Georgia participated in 0.03 percent of theEU's 2002 external trade. The European Union accounted for 26 percent of the products Georgia imported and 43 percent of what Georgia shipped out as exports.

http://lookingaroundabit.blogspot.co...-alphabet.html

[SebC]

Small victory for Geogia, good thing for them they have Brazillian mercenaries!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle4521186.ece

[kermitology]

The worst part about this whole ordeal is the two faced lies and bull crap coming out of the United States leadership, and the fact that it's all we get to hear about.

The United States is demanding that Russia respect the borders and autonomy of Georgia, but Georgia started the whole damn thing.

You don't poke a bear and then cry that it's unfair when it claws your face off.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by chris lindberg

http://lookingaroundabit.blogspot.co...-alphabet.html

Thanks. Still doesn't make a lot of sense to me though. They're nowhere close to membership.

Sends out the message that all EU countries have backed them when on the other hand many have chosen to keep out of it. I can understand that they brokered the peace plan but the flag was up before this.

Just don't get it. What next? A NATO flag?

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by kermitology

The worst part about this whole ordeal is the two faced lies and bull crap coming out of the United States leadership, and the fact that it's all we get to hear about.

The United States is demanding that Russia respect the borders and autonomy of Georgia, but Georgia started the whole damn thing.

You don't poke a bear and then cry that it's unfair when it claws your face off.

I think you can only come to your conclusions if you omit any history before the day Georgia moved it's troops into one of it renegade provinces. Before that day Russia had been active in fostering discontent among these provinces. They provided weapons and money to separatist forces within the nation of Georgia and even went so far as issuing the separatists Russian passports for travel abroad. Imagine if the States had funded the separatists in Quebec with money and weapons during the seventies. Imagine if the USA issued passports to the terrorist elements in Quebec. This was the state of things in Georgia leading up to this current conflict. Georgia being a little guy without much clout was trying to gain membership in NATO or some other international organization in order to gain some protection from this big bully(Russia). This didn't happen because the West hasn't been too keen on crossing swords with Russia.

Georgia did move troops into one of it's disputed provinces but, this was not an invasion; It is after all their territory. By doing that they expose Russia to the international attention and condemnation it should have been getting all along. This may end badly with the permanent loss of these territories. But Georgia had already been trying for years through diplomacy to get support from the West against Russia's underhanded treatment of them. If Georgia hadn't moved to secure its borders this slow erosion of their sovereignty would have(no doubt) continued unabated. At least now Russian actions are in the spotlight.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I think you can only come to your conclusions if you omit any history before the day Georgia moved it's troops into one of it renegade provinces.

That's quite a nice way of putting it. I prefer to call it a slaughter of innocents.

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Georgia did move troops into one of it's disputed provinces but, this was not an invasion; It is after all their territory.

You're right it wasn't an invasion, it was a slaughtering of innocent people when they were sleeping and supposed to be under a ceasefire.

But that's all right considering "It is after all their territory". That justifies it in your eyes?

Saddam gassed the Kurds in what was "a renegade province" in his territory. Fair game in your opinion? It was after all his territory.

As for that bit about passports. Are you trying to say that the Ossetians couldn't leave the country? They couldn't get Georgian passports?

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Bagor

That's quite a nice way of putting it. I prefer to call it a slaughter of innocents.



You're right it wasn't an invasion, it was a slaughtering of innocent people when they were sleeping and supposed to be under a ceasefire.

But that's all right considering "It is after all their territory". That justifies it in your eyes?

Saddam gassed the Kurds in what was "a renegade province" in his territory. Fair game in your opinion? It was after all his territory.

As for that bit about passports. Are you trying to say that the Ossetians couldn't leave the country? They couldn't get Georgian passports?

Russia and the people under their influence has made accusations against the Georgian army. Georgia and the people under their influence have made similar accusations against the Russian army. I prefer to wait and see what independent observers conclude after this crisis is over. If I had to chose one to believe it would probably be the Georgians because of Russia's long and bloody track record. I chose to wait for credible information.

Russia invaded immediately. If they truly had already heard any horror stories from the break away provinces they certainly didn't take any time to confirm anything before invading. They also were prepared to invade before Georgia moved it's troops. An Army doesn't move that fast without prior intent and planning.

It's very common for nations to restrict foreign travel of any of its citizens whom it sees as a threat to national security. Russia does that itself (if the poison doesn't work). Also I'm guessing the government agency offices in those provinces were understaffed. Not too many government beauraucrats would risk their lives to push government paper.

How does this give Russia the right to issue passports to foreign citizens who happen to be rebelling against their government? It doesn't. Clearly Russia is interested in expanding its territory.

[Azure]

I think its unfair to accuse Georgia of murdering innocent people considering the charges originated from Russia.

CalgaryBorn is right. We HAVE to wait and see what external information has to say about the conflict. Georgia AND Russia are running propaganda wars against each other, and through the world media right now. Hard to tell what is true or not.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

An Army doesn't move that fast without prior intent and planning.

True, but that doesn't really mean anything. Russia has long considered Georgia a "terrorist" state by their own definition. The U.S. has thousands of troops in South Korea ready to invade North Korea at a moments notice if North Korea makes the first move. At this point, we don't know if invading Georgia was a contingency plan put into action or if it was something planned to happen when it did.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

True, but that doesn't really mean anything. Russia has long considered Georgia a "terrorist" state by their own definition. The U.S. has thousands of troops in South Korea ready to invade North Korea at a moments notice if North Korea makes the first move. At this point, we don't know if invading Georgia was a contingency plan put into action or if it was something planned to happen when it did.

You make a good point but, I don't see how Russia could see little Georgia as a potential risk for an invasion of Russia. They may have planned in advance to invade the country if Georgia exercised its right to control it's own territory.

[kermitology]

http://www.antiwar.com/eland/?articleid=13311

“Despite significant U.S. and Georgian culpability in the crisis in Georgia, most U.S. politicians and media painted Russia as the diabolical “evildoer.” As if the Russian military incursions into Georgia, Abkhazia, and South Ossetia – the latter two are autonomous regions of the former that do not want to be part of that country – happened out of the blue, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice implied that Russia was attempting to bring back the Cold War.

Because Georgia is a U.S. friend, however, U.S. politicians, in a huff to heap blame on the resurgent Russian bear, forgot to mention that Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili recklessly first invaded South Ossetia to try to reclaim one of the two regions, which both have had long-standing autonomy and populations who want it to stay that way. He did this in part because the U.S. had helped build up his military, leading him to overestimate U.S. backing in any crisis.

Russia had given ample warnings to Saakashvili that if he attempted to grab such lands, he would meet resistance. In addition, the initial Georgian invasion killed Russian soldiers and apparently many civilians. The United States would never tolerate the killing of its military personnel in such a manner.”

[Bagor]

Why doesn't Russia just turn around and say that they had evidence that Georgia had WMD?

Leave it for a couple of weeks and then release another statement: "Ooops, My bad".

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Why doesn't Russia just turn around and say that they had evidence that Georgia had WMD?

Leave it for a couple of weeks and then release another statement: "Ooops, My bad".

To quote Bush..


“In a statement at the White House, President George W Bush accused Russia of “bullying and intimidation”, saying it was an unacceptable “way to conduct foreign policy in the 21st Century”.”


Yup..