[News] With the 144th OA pick, the Flames select LW Ethan Wyttenbach

[iloveicedhockey]

Can we also not make this thread about tanking as well? There's plenty of those.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I do worry a bit that the Flames are becoming too much the draft darlings focusing on NHLe and maybe over looking how many of these young players are transferable based on height issues etc.me

Love me some skill ... but are they overdoing it?

Not me. They're drafting appears more well rounded than that, and goes beyond just the NHLe thing.

Last year, all of their picks except Misa were 6' or over and most of them are decently sized. They simply appear to have gotten value by perhaps finding a guy with a wart that other teams didn't like (Mews) or who they saw had more going on but might not have had the opportunity (Battaglia!).

This year, they drafted two slightly smaller guys in the first round, but they were arguably BPA at that spot and played the centre position, which was the Flames' area of need. That those guys are slightly shorter isn't really a big deal where they were drafted... (and Reschny at least doesn't play small).

Then they went with a big boy centre with their second rounder (who they feel has a ton more potential for health reasons) and a REALLY big boy defender in the third, so it's not as if they are focussing exclusively on smaller, skilled guys with good NHLe. They're just seeing something in their picks that other teams may be missing.

Anything after the third is found money and Wyttenbach seems like an excellent value pick in the fifth round, especially since they followed that pick with another good sized winger in Lane with high upside and a decently sized defender and forward that their area scouts liked a lot in the 7th.

This more just looks like a pattern of good scouting with a team of scouts that do their homework and use analytics who have a large amount of front office trust. I think it's only a question around here, because the Flames haven't had as many high picks in the last few years as they were in their competitive window.

[Ba'alzamon]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I do worry a bit that the Flames are becoming too much the draft darlings focusing on NHLe and maybe over looking how many of these young players are transferable based on height issues etc.me

Love me some skill ... but are they overdoing it?

They picked Mace'o Phillips in the third round...

[Hockey-and_stuff]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

Not me. They're drafting appears more well rounded than that, and goes beyond just the NHLe thing.

Last year, all of their picks except Misa were 6' or over and most of them are decently sized. They simply appear to have gotten value by perhaps finding a guy with a wart that other teams didn't like (Mews) or who they saw had more going on but might not have had the opportunity (Battaglia!).

This year, they drafted two slightly smaller guys in the first round, but they were arguably BPA at that spot and played the centre position, which was the Flames' area of need. That those guys are slightly shorter isn't really a big deal where they were drafted... (and Reschny at least doesn't play small).

Then they went with a big boy centre with their second rounder (who they feel has a ton more potential for health reasons) and a REALLY big boy defender in the third, so it's not as if they are focussing exclusively on smaller, skilled guys with good NHLe. They're just seeing something in their picks that other teams may be missing.

Anything after the third is found money and Wyttenbach seems like an excellent value pick in the fifth round, especially since they followed that pick with another good sized winger in Lane with high upside and a decently sized defender and forward that their area scouts liked a lot in the 7th.

This more just looks like a pattern of good scouting with a team of scouts that do their homework and use analytics who have a large amount of front office trust. I think it's only a question around here, because the Flames haven't had as many high picks in the last few years as they were in their competitive window.

Both their 7th rounders are much bigger than sites like EP project apparently. Both well over 6 feet tall, so I don't think the prospect group at forward is especially small.

The Flames make their share of big guy picks (Laing, Lane, Matveiko, Stockselius, Phillips) so I do think they are covering more bases than a team like Carolina that seem to put a huge premium on skill no matter the size.

[Hockey-and_stuff]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

That's been the argument against the Canes, who over the years drafted gobs of these guys. The irony is that despite this preference, they missed Stankoven, drafting Aleksi Heimosalmi at 44, ahead of him going at 47. So I guess the thing is you have to pick the right skilled small guy.

And the other move Carolina has made has been to trade down constantly. I suspect their models tell them, that statistically more picks is better often than 1 higher pick.

But it's left them with a constant issue of lacking elite high end talent.

Overall I like the focus on skill for sure, but Carolina is an interesting case study in perhaps taking it too far.

One of the biggest issues for the Canes is development of said draft picks. Up until recently they didn't even have an AHL team.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Hockey-and_stuff

One of the biggest issues for the Canes is development of said draft picks. Up until recently they didn't even have an AHL team.

What an odd strategy to draft so many players without proper development.
They are an interesting team. I like how they handle a lot of things, but then they just make some weird-ass decisions.

[Mightyfire89]

Draft Skill first, Speed (skating) second, hockey sense (thinks the game well) third, leadership (intangibles, character) fourth and then size. I think if that approach is consistently applied to drafting, for years and years, you will find your organization in very good shape.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Mightyfire89

Draft Skill first, Speed (skating) second, hockey sense (thinks the game well) third, leadership (intangibles, character) fourth and then size. I think if that approach is consistently applied to drafting, for years and years, you will find your organization in very good shape.

That's pretty much how the Red Wings did it leading up to their glory years in the 1990s, except that they put more emphasis on size and less on speed. It was the Dead Puck Era, and being a fast skater wasn't as valuable as being able to skate full-tilt with an opposing player water-skiing in your wake. I can't count how many times I saw Iginla bulling ahead in the attacking zone with an opponent hooking him and trying to drag him back bodily.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Mightyfire89

Draft Skill first, Speed (skating) second, hockey sense (thinks the game well) third, leadership (intangibles, character) fourth and then size. I think if that approach is consistently applied to drafting, for years and years, you will find your organization in very good shape.

That will lead to a team that is always too small - just like CAR

You can't be too rigid and too set in your ways, you have to take what the draft gives you.

This year, the Flames needed some Cs, so they took the best available, which was the right thing to do. It was no coincidence that those players were small, because the bigger ones were taken before them. The Flames did the right thing, under the circumstances, but prioritizing the same things every year would be a bad strategy

[Calgary4LIfe]

I am in the the box that thinks size matters, and if you build a team of midgets, then you will really struggle in the playoffs. That's the key word for me, however - TEAM. You can't have too many, but you definitely can have some.


I think people are a little overly-fixated on this right now simply because the drafted 3 undersized players this past draft - Reschny, Potter and Wyttenbach. If they all make it, that's great - if the Flames do end up a little undersized, you can trade one or two. It isn't an issue. Why isn't it an issue?


Honzek - 6'4"
Gridin - 6'1"
Basha - 6'0"
Battaglia - 6'1"
Stromgren - 6'3"
Stockselius - 6'2"
Zary - 6'0"
Laing - 6'6"
Suniev - 6'2"


I think there is a lot of size and skill here. I think the Flames can withstand an injection of undersized guys without being worried too much about ending up as an undersized team.



Size - Skill - IQ - Speed - Character - Physicality: These are the traits that the Flames are focusing on, but you can't get all of these traits in one package unless you draft HIGH. That's why I am still a huge fan of the Honzek trade, as he has everything other than being a really physical force. I don't see the Flames necessarily prioritizing so much on any particular sets and forgetting about others. I think what they do is focus on IQ as a 'must' for every prospect, but they seem to be taking both undersized and oversized prospects, when available. I think they have been a fairly balanced team in terms of drafting.


We all see holes - not enough top-end centers, maybe a bit light on the RW, etc., but I don't see an undersized prospect base, even when accounting for expected positions if they develop enough to make the NHL. If the Flames go into the next draft and draft all undersized players - especially from rounds 1-4 - then we start to see a trend that way that could be worrisome, but at this point, I feel it is a nice mix actually.

[Sandman]

Excellent posts Enoch and C4L! Speed and skill are most important, but character and size help you win in the playoffs. The bigger animal wins the battle more often than not in nature, and size matters in contact sports- like it or not.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I am in the the box that thinks size matters, and if you build a team of midgets, then you will really struggle in the playoffs. That's the key word for me, however - TEAM. You can't have too many, but you definitely can have some.


I think people are a little overly-fixated on this right now simply because the drafted 3 undersized players this past draft - Reschny, Potter and Wyttenbach. If they all make it, that's great - if the Flames do end up a little undersized, you can trade one or two. It isn't an issue. Why isn't it an issue?


Honzek - 6'4"
Gridin - 6'1"
Basha - 6'0"
Battaglia - 6'1"
Stromgren - 6'3"
Stockselius - 6'2"
Zary - 6'0"
Laing - 6'6"
Suniev - 6'2"


I think there is a lot of size and skill here. I think the Flames can withstand an injection of undersized guys without being worried too much about ending up as an undersized team.



Size - Skill - IQ - Speed - Character - Physicality: These are the traits that the Flames are focusing on, but you can't get all of these traits in one package unless you draft HIGH. That's why I am still a huge fan of the Honzek trade, as he has everything other than being a really physical force. I don't see the Flames necessarily prioritizing so much on any particular sets and forgetting about others. I think what they do is focus on IQ as a 'must' for every prospect, but they seem to be taking both undersized and oversized prospects, when available. I think they have been a fairly balanced team in terms of drafting.


We all see holes - not enough top-end centers, maybe a bit light on the RW, etc., but I don't see an undersized prospect base, even when accounting for expected positions if they develop enough to make the NHL. If the Flames go into the next draft and draft all undersized players - especially from rounds 1-4 - then we start to see a trend that way that could be worrisome, but at this point, I feel it is a nice mix actually.

You didn't even mention the recently re-signed Pospisil (6'2") and Klapka (6'7").

[jaikorven]

Or Maceo Phillips 6'6"

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by D as in David

You didn't even mention the recently re-signed Pospisil (6'2") and Klapka (6'7").

I was focusing more on the top 6, and in particular, the 23 and under players for the most part. Klapka is 24, and Pospisil 25, but yeah, I think they are here long term and go even further to illustrate that the Flames are not fine with being an undersized team.

Originally Posted by jaikorven

Or Maceo Phillips 6'6"

I didn't touch on defencemen since there aren't any undersized defencemen in the org. Everyone seems to be at least 6'0" (unless I missed someone). That's why I didn't mention Bahl either.


However, it is a good point. People will point at Tampa as being a great example of an undersized team having playoff success. They had some hulking defencemen that helped in that regard. I especially think that defencemen take a lot of wear and tear, as they are the focus of the fore-checkers, as well as their work along the boards and in front of the net. Having a hulk that is able to play on a couple of pairings definitely go a long way in a series.

[SilverKast]

I keep thinking this guy must be a really interesting prospect because this thread is always near the top, but alas…