You know our Immigration System must be pretty f***ed up when you get 150 Eritrean people street fighting in NE Calgary.
How about the 10s of millions that aren't street fighting?
What a weird thing to respond with. 10s of millions of who?
Eritrea itself is only estimated to have 6.7 million people, so no '10s of millions' there. Canada hasn't been estimated to have broken the 40 million population mark yet and surely you aren't suggesting there's 10s of millions of Eritean immigrants in Canada (there's only ~15,xxx), never mind that there's only ~8.3 million in Canada identifying as immigrants as of 2021's census.
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Originally Posted by iggy_oi
Or some of the “old stock” Canadians who get into a bar fights on a regular basis?
Or do dumb things like illegally occupy the capital and block boarders. Must be the fault of immigrants too.
What does this have to do with anything? Are 150 person bar fights happening somewhere and we're just not hearing about them?
Yeah, we have home-grown sh-t-disturbers here, they're a pain in the ass, and they need to be dealt with. That doesn't excuse those who have been granted the privilege of coming here causing net new issues. No one is blanket blaming immigrants, but there must be a problem somewhere with the immigration process failing to vet newcomers if this sort of thing is capable of happening.
__________________
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GO FLAMES GO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
Typical dumb take.
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What a weird thing to respond with. 10s of millions of who?
Eritrea itself is only estimated to have 6.7 million people, so no '10s of millions' there. Canada hasn't been estimated to have broken the 40 million population mark yet and surely you aren't suggesting there's 10s of millions of Eritean immigrants in Canada (there's only ~15,xxx), never mind that there's only ~8.3 million in Canada identifying as immigrants as of 2021's census.
Less than 1% of immigrants(albeit from a single ethnicity) being problematic doesn’t seem like a figure that screams big problems with the immigration system. While we obviously want to ensure public safety is a priority I think most people would be pretty happy with less than 1% of the overall population behaving unacceptably so I’m not sure why people of different ethnicities should be held to a different standard. I also think you’d agree that expecting perfection out of any immigration system is an expectation unlikely to be achieved.
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What does this have to do with anything? Are 150 person bar fights happening somewhere and we're just not hearing about them?
Because violence is violence regardless of a person’s ethnicity. You nor anyone else have provided any data to suggest all participants were even landed immigrants, without knowing that number it’s difficult to consider a proclamation that this is an immigration issue as not being at least somewhat racially motivated.
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Yeah, we have home-grown sh-t-disturbers here, they're a pain in the ass, and they need to be dealt with. That doesn't excuse those who have been granted the privilege of coming here causing net new issues. No one is blanket blaming immigrants, but there must be a problem somewhere with the immigration process failing to vet newcomers if this sort of thing is capable of happening.
Again, according to you less than 1% are causing issues. Do you have any statistics regarding how many applicants are being turned away due to safety concerns or are you satisfied with jumping to conclusions based on partial information?
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Less than 1% of immigrants(albeit from a single ethnicity) being problematic doesn’t seem like a figure that screams big problems with the immigration system. While we obviously want to ensure public safety is a priority I think most people would be pretty happy with less than 1% of the overall population behaving unacceptably so I’m not sure why people of different ethnicities should be held to a different standard. I also think you’d agree that expecting perfection out of any immigration system is an expectation unlikely to be achieved.
Because violence is violence regardless of a person’s ethnicity. You nor anyone else have provided any data to suggest all participants were even landed immigrants, without knowing that number it’s difficult to consider a proclamation that this is an immigration issue as not being at least somewhat racially motivated.
Again, according to you less than 1% are causing issues. Do you have any statistics regarding how many applicants are being turned away due to safety concerns or are you satisfied with jumping to conclusions based on partial information?
I understand the point you are making, but there is a distinction between finding and not allowing that 1% to enter the country and saying all immigration is bad. I think most people are walking that line.
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I understand the point you are making, but there is a distinction between finding and not allowing that 1% to enter the country and saying all immigration is bad. I think most people are walking that line.
Precisely. I wouldn't even be here if not for immigration (I was born here, my mom is an immigrant) so I'm the last person to take the position that 'immigration is bad'. That doesn't tempt me to avoid suggesting we should investigate if we could be doing a better job vetting people given what's taken place. The 'largest violent event in Calgary' isn't something to scoff at, and even the far-right / convoy sh-t-heels haven't managed to escalate things to that degree.
Canada doesn't publish how many people are turned away due to safety issues, no, but in raw numbers we have higher overall influx than ever. It isn't a stretch to ask if we've actually added the capacity within the system to deal with such high numbers. Anyone who has worked with the federal government knows everything gets run on a shoe-string budget at the best of times.
What a weird thing to respond with. 10s of millions of who?
Eritrea itself is only estimated to have 6.7 million people, so no '10s of millions' there. Canada hasn't been estimated to have broken the 40 million population mark yet and surely you aren't suggesting there's 10s of millions of Eritean immigrants in Canada (there's only ~15,xxx), never mind that there's only ~8.3 million in Canada identifying as immigrants as of 2021's census.
What does this have to do with anything? Are 150 person bar fights happening somewhere and we're just not hearing about them?
Yeah, we have home-grown sh-t-disturbers here, they're a pain in the ass, and they need to be dealt with. That doesn't excuse those who have been granted the privilege of coming here causing net new issues. No one is blanket blaming immigrants, but there must be a problem somewhere with the immigration process failing to vet newcomers if this sort of thing is capable of happening.
He was saying the immigration system is effed. How about the 10s of millions of other immigrants who were beneficial to Canada? But for sure. If these guys are not PR yet, send them straight back to Africa.
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He was saying the immigration system is effed. How about the 10s of millions of other immigrants who were beneficial to Canada?
But the immigration system changes; requirements change, vetting processes change, immigration targets change, the ability and capacity of the system and people administering it changes. Where one aspect might be vastly improved, another could be flawed. It isn't this monolithic thing and saying there may be areas for improvement doesn't say immigrants or immigration is a bad thing (despite some people's desire to leap to the least charitable interpretation as usual).
But again, 10s of millions? It's just weird to try and dismiss what they're saying by referring to every immigrant Canada has ever seen since Confederation. (There have been ~20,880,900 since 1867.)
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Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov
But for sure. If these guys are not PR yet, send them straight back to Africa.
Eh? Even if they are PR, deport them. The Immigration and Refugee Protection Act allows for both PR and refugee status persons to be deported if they commit a crime.
I understand the point you are making, but there is a distinction between finding and not allowing that 1% to enter the country and saying all immigration is bad. I think most people are walking that line.
It would be nearly impossible to weed out that 1%. It's pretty easy to just, you know, lie.
I understand the point you are making, but there is a distinction between finding and not allowing that 1% to enter the country and saying all immigration is bad. I think most people are walking that line.
Serious question for you and torquedog, do either or you honestly believe that the OP who made the post stating “you know our immigration is ####ed when…” and subsequently deleted it was implying that our immigration system was somewhat imperfect and needed some minor adjustments or that they were perhaps attempting to use an isolated incident to push a different kind of message?
I don’t think anyone could argue that our system is perfect or shouldn’t be looked at for ways to improve it but to argue that it’s ####ed based solely on this incident(which the OP did) is ludicrous.
Serious question for you and torquedog, do either or you honestly believe that the OP who made the post stating “you know our immigration is ####ed when…” and subsequently deleted it was implying that our immigration system was somewhat imperfect and needed some minor adjustments or that they were perhaps attempting to use an isolated incident to push a different kind of message?
I don’t think anyone could argue that our system is perfect or shouldn’t be looked at for ways to improve it but to argue that it’s ####ed based solely on this incident(which the OP did) is ludicrous.
I didn't read that message. So you're punching thin air. But my answer is the same If English folks were swinging bats at Irish people in the streets en mass I would want Canadian immigration officers to make extra sure nobody from the England or Ireland tries to spill their cultural differences onto Canadian streets.
Are folks using this as an excuse to be racist? sure, but that shouldn't make everyone asking about what measures can be put in place so this doesn't happen again a racist. Moderates exist even if they are no fun to argue with.
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I didn't read that message. So you're punching thin air.
Well perhaps you should next time so that you have the proper context required to comment on my response. In any event there is nowhere near enough data provided from this single incident to make his claim credible.
Well perhaps you should next time so that you have the proper context required to comment on my response. In any event there is nowhere near enough data provided from this single incident to make his claim credible.
So 1 person makes a bad post and the thousands of other posters need to prove they disagree before making a comment?
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You've never had a problem massaging the posts of others to fit your interpretation. [shrug] It literally just happened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iggy_oi
Serious question for you and torquedog, do either or you honestly believe that the OP who made the post stating “you know our immigration is ####ed when…” and subsequently deleted it was implying that our immigration system was somewhat imperfect and needed some minor adjustments or that they were perhaps attempting to use an isolated incident to push a different kind of message?
Knowing how a lot of threads seem to have been going lately, I think flamesfever posted it with the intention of conveying the former, realized very quickly that there is a contingent of posters who would immediately take the most uncharitable possible interpretation of what they said and run with it, and subsequently deleted and replaced it with 'nm' so as to not have to put up with being immediately assumed a cretin until proven otherwise.
I've seen what flamesfever has posted before, there is nothing about anything that they've previously shared that I can remember that would make me prone to assuming the worst about their character or the intent behind their post.
Perhaps you should try harder to have the proper context required to judge whether or not flamesfever meant their remarks in the way you're suggesting here. In any event, there is nowhere near enough historical evidence vis-a-vis their post history to make your assertion of their malintent credible. Maybe you could ask them what they meant to say?
__________________
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GO FLAMES GO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
Typical dumb take.
Last edited by TorqueDog; 09-06-2023 at 02:20 PM.
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Again, according to you less than 1% are causing issues. Do you have any statistics regarding how many applicants are being turned away due to safety concerns or are you satisfied with jumping to conclusions based on partial information?
The stats are readily available here (note this is refugee claims and not the normal immigration process)
Eritrea has a very high acceptance rate of refugee applicants. It's very easy to claim refugee status from such a totalitarian state, but I would hazard it's much harder to authenticate the validity of their claims, for such a state I would expect immigration to side on the humanitarian side.
Compare to the United States who gets 100% refusal (LOL the number of refugee claimants after Trump won the election is sad), these numbers from 2017
United States of America 869 -- 147 25 4
The number of refugees from Eritrea is quite small, as it's very difficult for persecuted Eritreans to escape the country. According to the 2021 census we have approximately 36,290 identified Eritreans.
A group of 150 Eritreans fighting out of a total of 36,290 in the whole country gives you 0.4% just for this specific incident of a couple of hours in the 4th largest metropolitan city in Canada. Add the Toronto and Edmonton incidents and suddenly the 1% may actually be a a conservative number as this population number includes children and elderly.
For such a small population size, such a level of melee and violence is simply troubling and does warrant scrutiny, especially if refugees are being accepted when their claim may not be legitimate.
I do think our refugee program is rather robust, just giving real stats and real info versus throwing hyperboles around purely for grandstanding purposes (not sure the meaning of 1% to begin with or how that is a threshold, but since you are throwing this number around...)
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