Teachers are at the end of their rope.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

I am not a teacher, but there are things that I find odd that teachers, the Teacher's Union, Principals, School Boards, & the ministry have no answers for include:

Teaching is an odd profession by nature. You're responsible for not only the health and wellbeing of children but their education. Not to mention children are divided by age not academic ability.

- Why do retired teachers on a full pension get to "double dip" by being at the top of substitute lists or working at private schools? (young teachers at the start of their careers complain this keeps them out of work)

Whether a retired teacher is on "full" pension or not is 100% irrelevant. While I don't think you mean to imply that teachers shouldn't get a "full" pension, it does read that way. Again, not saying that was intention just pointing it out to avoid in the future.

I do agree that they should enter the sublist at the bottom. Should be treated as a newbie to the list. Part of the supply list is to give experience to new teachers, as was correctly pointed out.

But if you want to retire and start a new job, have at 'er. I heard a Vice-Principal of my middle school retired and took a contract job as a Principal up north for a year or two. I mean, why not? I see nothing wrong with that.

- How much are the union dues? These unions have boatloads of cash for strikes and pensions. Seems to me, lowering the dues would equal real wage increases.

I don't know the figures. But, having a strong union that can withstand a strike and provide a good pension is a good thing. I'd hope all unions could provide in this way. Otherwise what are you unionized for? You can't strike without starving, or retire comfortably?

- Is vacation time really vacation time? Do teachers spend spring break grading papers or on a beach? I think they are required to be in school the week after last day and the week before first day.

Here teachers are in school the week before classes start, but the last day for students is the last day for teachers.

Some teachers use Christmas/March Breaks to catch up on grading/prep. Some don't. Those that don't do that in the evenings when it's required.

Also of note, planning vacations as a/with a teacher sucks donkey balls. Oh look, fights are cheap the first and last week of March, and triple the price during March Break. Travel solely during peak season, never off season or even shoulder season.

- How is prep time calculated and monitored?

It's in the contract. At least here its alloted in prep periods. For example, students are gone to music or gym, that's a prep period.

- Is kindergarten teacher a $100k job?

Yes it can be. My son's class is a Kindergarden/Grade 1 split. So, prep work for both grades, instruction in both grades. Students are still young to be diagnosed with ADHD (either due to age or simply resources and referals). There's a special needs student in my son's class. There are students who barely scape by and struggle to be engaged. There are students who the teacher struggles to find stuff advanced enough to keep them progressing.

- Why not disband school boards and separate boards and wrap it all into the ministry?

I like the idea of having the curriculum having some local flare. However a through the ministry is what they did here in NS. One school board for everyone (well 2, one English, one French).

- These agreements from late 1800's & early 1900's are not set in stone. Other provinces have worked around them (or in QC, ignored them). I don't think AB will quit confederation or be kicked out over dissolving the Catholic school board. I don't think there is anything in the agreement that says it has to be equally funded.

Yeah, I doubt Ottawa will care if there aren't Catholic school boards in Alberta.

-What is the monetary value of having so much time off?

I don't know exactly what you mean. Technically teachers don't get paid in the summer, they're salaried and the union arranges to have them paid over 12 months rather than 10.

-What is the monetary value of having gold plated benefits?

Gold plated benefits? Like "full" pension. Gold plated is 100% irrelevant, unless you're upset that teachers have good benefits at which point I'd say everyone should have those benefits, not have them taken away.

At the end of the day I am sure teaching is a good and fulfilling career.

Like any career, it's what you make of it.

I just wish the economics were a bit clearer considering education spending is just below health care spending in most provincial budgets.

Look south, deep south. I do have an analysis, but I can assure you it's worth it.

(In ON, one thing that always bothered me is that the provincial tv channel is funded through the education budget. The highest paid employee in the Education budget is the lead anchor on the TV channel @ $350k.)

Yeah. That's odd.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It's like some people have never seen Kindergarten Cop.

Miss Lippy seemed to have a pretty easy job and a good time teaching kindergarten.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by sleepingmoose

Clearly not - I’m genuinely curious, how is a teacher’s actual teaching performance assessed regularly to ensure they achieve an acceptable standard?

I have a friend that works in the CSSD. It sounds like it's actually more difficult achieving permanent teacher certification in that district than other ones in the province. You have to get viewed for a full class by a principal or VP 6 different times in a school year, in back to back years.

From what he was saying, it sounds like in many other Alberta districts you only need to get watched once, and don't need to be in a full year contract to get watched (3 month contract, etc, as long as you hit X amount of overall teaching hours that year - subbing, etc). In CSSD you do. If anything, Calgary Catholic has teachers go through a more rigorous process to becoming certified in Alberta than other districts here.

I find it kind of odd there can be such different standards or processes to achieve the exact same Alberta teacher certification, depending where you are. You would think it would be more standardized and only vary from province to province, not district to district.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Slava

It also seems like the overall time in class for students today compared to years ago has dropped significantly. When I was in school, PD days felt like they were a rarity, but they're seemingly constant now. My kids seem to have more weeks that are not full weeks of school than they have that are actually 5 days.

Yes and no. Hours of instruction are largely the same as they've ever been, so you're wrong that time in class has dropped compared to when you went to school. However, in an effort to save money, lots of provinces and districts have made school days longer to pack more hours into fewer days. This means fewer days of heating to room temperature, less time for custodial staff, and generally lower hours for other support staff.

For instance, making the school day 10 minutes longer means you can cut out 6-7 school days while still hitting the same instructional time. Given tight education budgets, they've opted to go that way, even if it inconveniences parents.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Slava

It also seems like the overall time in class for students today compared to years ago has dropped significantly. When I was in school, PD days felt like they were a rarity, but they're seemingly constant now. My kids seem to have more weeks that are not full weeks of school than they have that are actually 5 days.

Next school year the public system has the added benefit of a new fall break which will introduce another week off occuring in mid November.

[Ashartus]

Anyone questioning how tough kindergarten teaching can be should volunteer as a Beavers leader or some other activity for kids those age. Trying to keep 5 year old kids under control for an hour with a 1:5 adult:kid ratio is exhausting, I don't know how someone can look after 20+ of them all day by themselves.

[81MC]

Most professional workers have the benefit of corporate cultures
, respectful workplace policies, and typical adult interactions. You seen the #### teachers have to deal with now? As if being responsible for the education and care of hoards of developing children while being #### on by their parents, they now have to deal with the absolute clowns that are the modern social media always right can’t touch me goofs.

Godspeed teachers, you aren’t paid or respected nearly enough.

[Mickey76]

What’s the pipeline for teachers like right now? Do say 2/3 rds of graduating teachers find full time employment as teachers? 100% ? 50%?

[indes]

I'm in O&G and tons of people at the large plants "retire" with full pension then work a turnaround or two a year as a contractor and end up making probably 70% of their old yearly wage.

Nothing like listening to a 65 year old guy complain about his old age benefits being cut because he made over 170k with his pension and 3 months of contract work.

Definitely not exclusive to teachers, I imagine lots of careers end up with "consulting" roles after retirement.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Yes and no. Hours of instruction are largely the same as they've ever been, so you're wrong that time in class has dropped compared to when you went to school. However, in an effort to save money, lots of provinces and districts have made school days longer to pack more hours into fewer days. This means fewer days of heating to room temperature, less time for custodial staff, and generally lower hours for other support staff.

For instance, making the school day 10 minutes longer means you can cut out 6-7 school days while still hitting the same instructional time. Given tight education budgets, they've opted to go that way, even if it inconveniences parents.

Feels kinda pick your poisony. As in, higher taxes or this. Don’t want a PST? Okay. Go find childcare a few more days a year, etc.

[Bleeding Red]

Thanks Malcolmk14 and Maritime Q-Scout for your clarifications.

The value of the "gold plated" benefits & pension is not irrelevant as taxpayers pay into that pot as well. If it was only the teachers paying into it, then sure, whatever works. But that pool of money is partially taxpayer funded and is a liability on the government's books. As such, it need to be taken into consideration for job remuneration - not just for teachers, but for everyone on a government payroll.

The overall package - salary, benefits, pensions, vacation time, - should be taken into account.

I think double-dipping after retirement is an issue. It shuts out younger teachers from jobs, depletes the pension pool (yes, by peanuts, I know.) and is bad optics (in my opinion). Yes, teachers should get their full pension - they earned it. Going back to teaching for less money (eg- $50k) because they already make $75-$100 in pension money (i.e. possibly undercutting other non-retirement teachers) is an issue.

If the annual dues are in the $1,500 range. Ok, I didn't know that. If they are more, and those unions have enormous pools of funds (at one point the ON elementary teachers pension fund could pay out full pensions to every teacher in ON for 5 years.) perhaps the union could show they are on board and lower those fees. As after tax money it could be worth it to teachers.

I think school boards are a waste of time and money. They have very little power - most of the negotiating is done at the Provincial level. The idea of "local flavour to the curriculum" is ok until the local school board decides to start banning Maus, Diary of Anne Frank, Are you there G-d, it's me Margaret, books presenting same-sex parents, etc....More trouble than they are worth. Put the $2-3m into front line education workers and move the bureaucracy to the ministry.

Yes, in a perfect world teachers at all grades would be paid CEO money. Some great teachers made a huge difference in my kids' lives and I let them know to this day when I see them.

However, in the real world a lot of people work hard for $50k, crappy benefits, and no pension, and question why kindergarten teachers (or gym teachers, or poetry teachers) make $100k+.

[GGG]

Teachers have roughly 10% matching for their pensions. This is quite good but certainly not rare amongst professionals in Calgary.

In Alberta the union does not run the pension plan. They are co-sponsers with the government and have an independent 3rd party the ARTF run the pension.

I would hope a pension fund could pay all of its people for 5 years as they have to pay all of their people until they die. You are combing the pension fund and the unions funds into one bucket which is definitely not the case in Alberta.

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Does the 1200 hrs assigned time include the pd days? I should know this as my spouse is a teacher, but that number seems to imply a fair bit of time to prepare during the school day, and that is simply not the case for her. It may differ a bit for elementary vs high school, as to how the assigned time is actually spent.

Non-Instructional days are just that. Time required to be in the school working on board-driven initiatives or Principal-assigned duties. It counts as assigned time and is rarely used for self-directed teacher preparation.

Teachers are rarely given time to actively prepare for instruction and when they are, it's minimal. The most common example being Friday afternoons; kids are dismissed at say 12:15, teachers have lunch till 12:45, have a staff meeting and work on some sort of board- or Principal-directed task. They're "required" to be in the building till 3 pm so at 2:15 or 2:30 when that other work is done, they might be "given" 30 or 45 minutes of "prep time". Who really wants to sit there and get down to serious work at 2:30 on Friday?

95+% of teacher planning time is outside of assigned time. It is expected of teachers to do this work on their personal time. Same thing with marking, writing report cards, or completing other paperwork-type tasks. I can count on one hand the number of Non-Instructional days I've had where I can choose what to work on or prepare.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

Non-Instructional days are just that. Time required to be in the school working on board-driven initiatives or Principal-assigned duties. It counts as assigned time and is rarely used for self-directed teacher preparation.

Teachers are rarely given time to actively prepare for instruction and when they are, it's minimal. The most common example being Friday afternoons; kids are dismissed at say 12:15, teachers have lunch till 12:45, have a staff meeting and work on some sort of board- or Principal-directed task. They're "required" to be in the building till 3 pm so at 2:15 or 2:30 when that other work is done, they might be "given" 30 or 45 minutes of "prep time". Who really wants to sit there and get down to serious work at 2:30 on Friday?

95+% of teacher planning time is outside of assigned time. It is expected of teachers to do this work on their personal time. Same thing with marking, writing report cards, or completing other paperwork-type tasks. I can count on one hand the number of Non-Instructional days I've had where I can choose what to work on or prepare.

Totally agree. Thanks. Just wasn’t familiar with the term “assigned time”.

[Manhattanboy]

Wonder what Alberta teachers think of the new rules for public elementary schools in BC. Students will no longer get letter grades:

“It’s definitely time for a change (as) letter grades were a vestige of industrial society,” Brar told Global News.

“It’s a strength-based perspective where everyone is on the spectrum.”

The change has garnered a lot of attention online, with parents reacting to the news that only students in grades 10, 11 and 12 will receive letter grades and percentages.

Instead of letter grades, students will be assessed as “emerging, developing, proficient and extending.”

I challenge anyone to explain the difference between emerging and developing.

And extending? What the hell?

[Roughneck]

Emerging - like a seedling that has emerged from the ground, it only has the makings of a plant

Developing - it’s turning into a flower, not quite sure what kind of flower it is but know it’s definitely a flower

Proficient - it’s in bloom, you know what kind of flower it is

Extending - like a poppy ready to be plucked, it emerges taller than the rest


But that’s just an attempt from a guy who got a sad rain cloud in school.

[Locke]

My God...School gets dumber all the time.

[Manhattanboy]

My recollection is that there was a lot of emerging and extending among the boys when our gym teacher, who looked a lot like Angelina Jolie, wore those short shorts.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

I have a friend that works in the CSSD. It sounds like it's actually more difficult achieving permanent teacher certification in that district than other ones in the province. You have to get viewed for a full class by a principal or VP 6 different times in a school year, in back to back years.

From what he was saying, it sounds like in many other Alberta districts you only need to get watched once, and don't need to be in a full year contract to get watched (3 month contract, etc, as long as you hit X amount of overall teaching hours that year - subbing, etc). In CSSD you do. If anything, Calgary Catholic has teachers go through a more rigorous process to becoming certified in Alberta than other districts here.

I find it kind of odd there can be such different standards or processes to achieve the exact same Alberta teacher certification, depending where you are. You would think it would be more standardized and only vary from province to province, not district to district.

I've had close relatives achieve permanent certification at both cssd and cbe and the process was exactly the same in both boards.

[Sainters7]

Yeah I've heard that about CBE, maybe it's a Calgary thing. He came from Edmonton Public, apparently his wife got her certification her 2nd year up there after taking a contract for a Foods class in the winter semester. You couldn't do that here.