He isn't doing that badly. The truth is, with a couple of exceptions, the whole team is having a pretty bad year. Tkachuk's contract situation puts the microscope on him. He needs to be better to justify the qualifying offer that will be required. I think it's a little harsh to say he is declining though. Players have ups and downs. It's completely normal. It was just easier to ignore his flaws when he was on his entry level deal. Expectations were much higher now.
Having said that, I would be looking to flip him at this point. The way his last deal was structured, it is pretty clear that he doesn't have Calgary in his long term plans, which is completely fine as long as they can get good value for him. When you draft an American player, especially one with enough power to call the shots, there is a good chance that player is going to want to move to an American market at some point. It's the risk you have to take. People talk about the Russian factor when drafting, but for small market Canadian teams, there is an American factor to consider as well.
That is one of the reasons drafting high this year doesn't excite me. The top half of the first round is heavy with American players. That is not to say that all American players are flight risks, and I would always take the best player available, but you also need to feel out early what their intentions are. Tkachuk insisting on a bridge deal with an RFA QO poison pill was a clear indication to me that he was a flight risk and his tenure with the Flames had an expiration date.
I also can't help but wonder if other players who have committed to Calgary are put off by Tkachuk because of this. When you know someone who is dead set on moving sooner rather than later, how much do you emotionally invest in a bond with that person? Good teams have players that personally bond and I could see this being a mental block for some of them who know that Tkachuk ins't in the long term future. Him getting called out in the players only meeting might have something to do with that.
I can kind of relate to a personal situation. I recently met a parent at my kids school and she seemed nice. They just moved to Canada this year and I thought that was really cool. But then she went on to say that she really wanted to immigrate to the U.S. (specifically mentioned Florida and California), but it was going to take a while to get her green card, so she settled for Canada long enough to arrange moving to the U.S. After that, I pretty much lost interest. I was like, alright see ya!
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
Last edited by FlamesAddiction; 03-18-2021 at 03:12 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to FlamesAddiction For This Useful Post:
Y'know I think it's pretty weird that we're looking for a big bodied winger who can crash and bang, is reasonably responsible defensively, and has mitts for Johnny and Mony's line. We've been looking for this player for a long time. We are so damn fixated that they have to be Right handed... Why the hell aren't we trying Tkachuk-Monahan-Johnny for at least a few games? We only ever play these guys together on the PP. at this point what do we have to lose? Johnny played RW on numerous occasions in international play. Tkachuk should be able to play RW too. Tkachuk is exactly the type of player that we are looking for if he pulls his head out of his ass- all this while it's clear his style isn't meshing with Lindy.
Tkachuk-Monahan-Gaudreau
Dube-Lindholm-Mangiapane (Or phillips here if we are really feeling bold.)
I agree with you to move Chucky onto Mony and Johnny's line. However, it's just a stop-gap until Tre finds more depth on true right shot right wingers. It has to be a fixation since Lindholm is the only top right winger and he's pretty much moved to being a center. Ritchie is nice since if they're playing Sutter's N/S dump-in game, he'll go chase down the puck in the end zones any day with his big body. Flames are missing natural right wingers (and right shot d-man who can unload the shots at the point). That is why there's a fixation on getting right handed shot guys for the Flames.
Sigh you guys are really going to make me waste time going to look for this eh... Fine
Well, I was wrong. I misremembered how he phrased it, but he did not say Murray Edwards is the one who called him. He did expand on his closeness to the owners and mentions speaking to Edwards at around ~24:30, which is where I thought he also slipped up and said "when Murray called me..."
Is the decline similar to Phaneuf? We traded Phaneuf in year 5. Tkachuk has been around close to the same.
The supposed locker room tensions feel kinda similar. An established group of vets who have proven themselves individually, but have also collectively failed to achieve sustained success when it matters most vs. a brash upstart who has plenty of flaws but also the irrational confidence that might be necessary to find that higher level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB
When Sutter makes the comment about players on the Flames not being as mature as on the 2004 team, Tkachuk and his constant between-the-legs shot attempts is the first guy that comes to mind for me.
Also, when Sutter mentions Gio, Lucic, Backlund and Ryan as voices of leadership in the room, it's notable that the team's mostly highly paid player doesn't come to mind.
From the four games under Sutter so far, Monahan seems to have responded in his playing style. Johnny, although struggling a bit with adapting to the new style, also seems to be working at it. Tkachuk often looks like he just wants to do his thing.
He needs to improve a lot from how he's playing now if he's going to be worth anything close to the 9M needed to qualify him. If he doesn't, either Tre or whoever has replaced him by that time is going to be in a sticky situation.
Is there anything else the bolded guys have in common? They're the 4 oldest guys on the team (along with Tanev+Markstrom). Is it not also notable that Gaudreau and Monahan are not mentioned?
As for the between the legs, does anyone else remember how many times Iginla tried his goal-line power move on the powerplay? I can't ever recall it working a single time...
Quote:
Originally Posted by 442scotty
Tkachuk really has Treliving over a barrel. What do you do at qualifying time when your guy is playing like a 5/6 million dollar guy but needs 9 million to qualify. Masterful negotiating by Tkachuk who is likely calling all the shots if he wants to. Epic fail on Trelivings part in my opinion but time will tell.
Would you prefer the alternative of a 6x8M or 8x9M deal? Bridge deals have risks/rewards on both sides.
I agree with you to move Chucky onto Mony and Johnny's line. However, it's just a stop-gap until Tre finds more depth on true right shot right wingers. It has to be a fixation since Lindholm is the only top right winger and he's pretty much moved to being a center. Ritchie is nice since if they're playing Sutter's N/S dump-in game, he'll go chase down the puck in the end zones any day with his big body. Flames are missing natural right wingers (and right shot d-man who can unload the shots at the point). That is why there's a fixation on getting right handed shot guys for the Flames.
Ritchie is energetic and all, but the RW has to at least be somewhat of a threat to score, or it's still too easy to defend against JG and SM. I think the reason SM's goals are down (and JG's were up) is that the opposition is completely keyed on preventing the pass to Monahan in the slot.Hardly any are getting through and when they do, Monahan is being covered really quickly. There's a lot of sticks getting to his shots. They don't have to show much respect for a pass to the RW. It's partially why JG was getting such good looks - they expected a pass and he went in for a close range shot, which he's pretty good at.
Sutter said in his opening press conference that it was Murray Edwards who called him.
I recall a bit of a slip of the tongue comment and a quick "correction" or something that was very much an insinuation that Edwards reached out or was the driving force.
Really? How easy it is to get him off his game, and the opposition uses this to their advantage, is the classic example of head case. Chirp him the right way, or take a run at him, and the guy will spend the night distracted and trying to get even instead of trying to score or prevent goals. The guy had a puck flipped at him and his season has gone to #### since. A single flip of a puck over a month ago and he has not yet recovered. Head case.
This post makes you sound like a head case. Totally invented storyline to support a narrative.
__________________
Quote:
Can I offer you a nice egg in these trying times?
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to VilleN For This Useful Post:
If he were paid less and had a much lower qualifying offer I don't think it would be a big deal. The problem is him being paid on the promise of what he was expected to become while failing to become that, and his current play being both below what might be expected of the team's highest paid player and way below the value of a 9M contract that's on the horizon.
Best player on the team before he got hurt in the playoffs.
Had a look at 70 points with a strong finish had Covid not happened.
Had to deal with Ward, who couldn’t get anything out of anyone this year.
Whatever you want to call what’s happened with Tkachuk, it’s not a decline.
Give him more than 2 weeks with Darryl and let’s see how we feel.
__________________ ”All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.”
Well, I was wrong. I misremembered how he phrased it, but he did not say Murray Edwards is the one who called him. He did expand on his closeness to the owners and mentions speaking to Edwards at around ~24:30, which is where I thought he also slipped up and said "when Murray called me..."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red
I recall a bit of a slip of the tongue comment and a quick "correction" or something that was very much an insinuation that Edwards reached out or was the driving force.
You should probably go listen to it again, because it is not there. Here is Sutter's direct quote starting @ 23:25 in response to the question of which other team he would coach for:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Sutter
"I was drafted and basically played and coached, and we pretty much grew up in Chicago as youngsters. So, you know, that was a city that appealed to me. And obviously you brought up Calgary, and that was because it was a family-type of team, too, and the ownership. You know, something I always went back to when I talked about coaching or opportunities with other organizations: it always came back to ownership. I've been blessed to only be involved with great ownership, starting with the Wirtz family in Chicago. You know, obviously I was very close to Doc and Hartley, Bud in Calgary here. And then Murray came on with Al and Mr. Libin. So, it's like I have a debt to pay to them guys, and we're going to win a Stanley Cup for them."
__________________
Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
Best player on the team before he got hurt in the playoffs.
Had a look at 70 points with a strong finish had Covid not happened.
Had to deal with Ward, who couldn’t get anything out of anyone this year.
Whatever you want to call what’s happened with Tkachuk, it’s not a decline.
Give him more than 2 weeks with Darryl and let’s see how we feel.
I didn't say he is in decline. I'm just saying he's not living up to being the highest paid player on the team, and he's certainly not living up to what would make 9M worth the offer. If he's going to be worth 9M, he needs to be much better than he has been.
Personally, I don't think he has been the best player on the team in any season.
__________________
"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?"
Tkachuk seems to have stalled in overall play. One of his strongest qualities as a prospect was being a student of the game. Well, the last couple seasons he hasn’t looked like a player who soaks up everything the coaching staff says like a sponge and stays after practice to work on weaknesses in his game. He looks like a player who feels like he has made it, and he just needs to keep doin what he’s doin.
His future with the team seems murky. The contract. The fact he’s an American star. I love the guy as a player, but if the team decides to retool the core this summer, you open up the channels to other GMs and listen to offers.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
The Following User Says Thank You to CliffFletcher For This Useful Post:
Wasn't there a poster here claiming inside knowledge that this was heavily driven by ownership?
Posters who claim to have inside knowledge should be taking with a grain of salt.
I remember, this past summer, that one poster said he had heard first hand from a son of one of the owners (didn't say which one) that the Flames were going to trade Johnny Gaudreau for Sean Couturier and the only reason it didn't happen was because the salaries didn't work. Bull Sh*t.
Why would the owner tell his son?
Why would his son tell his buddy?
Why would his buddy tell CP?
Doesn't pass the smell test. And neither does someone claiming to have inside knowledge on hiring practices of the Flames. And even if they did, why on earth would they share that with CP?
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to TOfan For This Useful Post:
Posters who claim to have inside knowledge should be taking with a grain of salt.
I remember, this past summer, that one poster said he had heard first hand from a son of one of the owners (didn't say which one) that the Flames were going to trade Johnny Gaudreau for Sean Couturier and the only reason it didn't happen was because the salaries didn't work. Bull Sh*t.
Why would the owner tell his son?
Why would his son tell his buddy?
Why would his buddy tell CP?
Doesn't pass the smell test. And neither does someone claiming to have inside knowledge on hiring practices of the Flames. And even if they did, why on earth would they share that with CP?
LOL, I hear a lot of juicy gossips from Oiler fans up north. It's always fun to hear but you have to take it with a grain of salt.
You should probably go listen to it again, because it is not there. Here is Sutter's direct quote starting @ 23:25 in response to the question of which other team he would coach for:
Ya that question has nothing to do with it lol
From what I remember it was early in the presser. Like I said, it was a slip and recovery kind of thing. It wasn't a clear cut statement, but something you read between the lines. But then again, I may be wrong. I only heard it live.
Do you have a link for that? Maybe if i hear it again I will be able to pin point the exact quote.
From what I remember it was early in the presser. Like I said, it was a slip and recovery kind of thing. It wasn't a clear cut statement, but something you read between the lines. But then again, I may be wrong. I only heard it live.
Do you have a link for that? Maybe if i hear it again I will be able to pin point the exact quote.
It's futile; I thought I remembered the exact same thing you did (weird) but on a re-listen, which I documented in this very thread and TC quoted, I came to the conclusion that I was wrong and that never happened. He did mention Bob Murray earlier on too (his boss in Anaheim) which may cause additional confusion.
This was the specific response by Sutter that Monohammer brought up, and it is the only place in his entire press conference in which he speaks of the individual owners by name.
Quote:
From what I remember it was early in the presser. Like I said, it was a slip and recovery kind of thing. It wasn't a clear cut statement, but something you read between the lines. But then again, I may be wrong. I only heard it live.
Do you have a link for that? Maybe if i hear it again I will be able to pin point the exact quote.
Have at it. Like I said: I have listened to the entire availability twice now, and cannot find anything like what either of you describe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monahammer
It's futile; I thought I remembered the exact same thing you did (weird) but on a re-listen, which I documented in this very thread and TC quoted, I came to the conclusion that I was wrong and that never happened. He did mention Bob Murray earlier on too (his boss in Anaheim) which may cause additional confusion.
Yeah, I wondered if this was the cause of it when I re-listened to it today.
__________________
Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
The only reason I would consider trading Tkachuk is because a team is willing to give a huge return for him and because he'll be making North of 9 million on his next contract. If a team isn't willing to give up a lot for him, just keep him.
If the Sabres want to make Eichle happy, they would be a great team to take advantage of.
__________________
Fan of the Flames, where being OK has become OK.
Tkachuk seems to have stalled in overall play. One of his strongest qualities as a prospect was being a student of the game. Well, the last couple seasons he hasn’t looked like a player who soaks up everything the coaching staff says like a sponge and stays after practice to work on weaknesses in his game. He looks like a player who feels like he has made it, and he just needs to keep doin what he’s doin.
His future with the team seems murky. The contract. The fact he’s an American star. I love the guy as a player, but if the team decides to retool the core this summer, you open up the channels to other GMs and listen to offers.
Last couple of seasons?
WTF are you even talking about.
BTW, Tkachuk is still THE best possession player on the Flames. He also generates the most offense, individually, on the entire team.
All while having the lowest offensive zone starts.
This year, last year, and pretty much since he has been on the team.
The Flames without Tkachuk are probably one of the worst teams in the league.
This thread is pretty bad. This reponse in the thread, terrible.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poe969
It's the Law of E=NG. If there was an Edmonton on Mars, it would stink like Uranus.
The Following User Says Thank You to Wastedyouth For This Useful Post:
This was the specific response by Sutter that Monohammer brought up, and it is the only place in his entire press conference in which he speaks of the individual owners by name.
Have at it. Like I said: I have listened to the entire availability twice now, and cannot find anything like what either of you describe.
Yeah, I wondered if this was the cause of it when I re-listened to it today.
Nope, didnt hear it mentioned here. Was there another interview maybe because I also remember Sutter talking about the good Centres he already has here and that the hiring was very quick and it only took 2 -3 days.
