Bettman: No basis for a Calgary arena deal anytime soon

[JD]

Sadly, it seems to me the debate over this has regressed back to the polar ends. Either the Flames pay cause they're rich or the City gets robbed in the dark. To me, the offers made public were not really that far apart. A little negotiating with good faith could have gotten things done. Probably. Maybe?

But now here we are again back to taxpayers claiming the Flames should just pay for it, they're billionaires after all, and Bettman villainizing our city for not pulling down their pants for the NHL. It's so frustrating to watch from afar. Both parties clearly want a new arena. Surely there's a middle ground where everyone gets what they want.

[Fuzz]

If the Flames really are willing to sit on their hands for a few years until something changes that seems to be a pretty good indication the Saddledome is still functional enough for them, despite the claims it is not.

[Stay Golden]

The answer would be an overwelming no way if 15 years ago you asked fans of the Flames and or Stampeders in 2018 that the city of Calgary and ownership would be home of the oldest facilities in both league's. And the main reason there is no concrete plans to build a new stadium or arena will be because the Mayor and Ownership can't even agree on any plan.
Yet here we are in 2018 stuck with a Mayor that wants it all his way regarding both facilities and ownership that wants it all their way. There seems to be No middle ground either way & no intent to begin real negotiations.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

If the Flames really are willing to sit on their hands for a few years until something changes that seems to be a pretty good indication the Saddledome is still functional enough for them, despite the claims it is not.

Don't they pay $1 a year to play in dome? Pretty good set-up.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Crossposted from the main thread since we're discussing the interview here:

Maclean erred in his follow up to Bettman's claim that the city's proposal involves the Flames paying for the whole thing.

Instead of asking why that's a problem (it's obvious, arenas aren't a positive investment), he should have asked "Do you believe that property taxes or rent count as funding towards an arena?". Because that's the basis of Bettman's claim.

And then if Bettman said "yes", which he would have to for his claim to be valid, it should have been followed up with "Regular homeowners like your fans have to both build or buy their house and then also pay property taxes on it. Why should team owners be treated differently?"

He also erred in saying a new arena is vital for an Olympic Bid. The IOC was just here and said the Saddledome was fine for their purposes.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

If the Flames really are willing to sit on their hands for a few years until something changes that seems to be a pretty good indication the Saddledome is still functional enough for them, despite the claims it is not.

It just means that their current situation is better than the one proposed by the city. Why would they agree to an arena deal where they would make less money than they do now? Doesn't make any sense.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Fire

It just means that their current situation is better than the one proposed by the city. Why would they agree to an arena deal where they would make less money than they do now? Doesn't make any sense.

I'll be curious to see how the math works out that they would make less. I would imagine that the whole idea of moving to a new arena is to increase their revenue drastically.

With the assumption that the amount of luxury suites should at least double, and every seat will increase in pricing by, lets say at least 25%, not to mention more concourse options and shops to increase streams of revenue, and if they get concert profits as well, how would they not make a fair amount more money from accept the city's proposed offer?

I agree with the post above that the Flames as it stands now are fine with the Saddledome. So they're not at the point that they need to desperately rush things. But in the long run, they need to move to a new arena since there's a lot more money that can be made.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Corral

Spoken like Gary himself - you keep telling yourself the owners are looking out for the good citizens of Winnipeg or Calgary. Uncle Gary's subtle threats to Calgary today (like always) show me all I need to know about who's side he is on.

What an unsurprising take from you this AM.

To be clear, Gary Bettman is paid by NHL ownership to represent their interests—that much has always been undisputed. But the extent to which he is vilified in this role among Canadians continues to be ridiculous. Put simply: Bettman does not have some sort of special vendetta against Canadian NHL franchises. Quite to the contrary, in the decade leading up to the second NHL lockout in 2004 there was not a better friend of Canadian hockey teams than Gary Bettman. I don't think it is untoward to suggest that if not for his campaigning on behalf of hockey in Canada, we would have seen an exodus of Canadian franchises that went well beyond Quebec City and Winnipeg.

I would agree with you that in the present dispute the owners most certainly do not have the interests of Calgarians prioritized on their agenda. But by the same token, neither do the players. Both sides are draconian in their willingness to bleed the paying public for everything they can.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by troutman

He also erred in saying a new arena is vital for an Olympic Bid. The IOC was just here and said the Saddledome was fine for their purposes.

If I understood correctly, it was fine as ONE of the rinks, but they still need another one.

It would make sense as well. Figure skating would needs its own facility as it lasts a full week, and hockey runs pretty much the entirety of the games and would obviously need its own facility as well.

Unless Calgary is OK with spending whatever it ends up being to attract the Olympics but then farms out one of the two biggest draws of the games to another jurisdiction (what's the point?) then there is still another venue required.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

The answer would be an overwelming no way if 15 years ago you asked fans of the Flames and or Stampeders in 2018 that the city of Calgary and ownership would be home of the oldest facilities in both league's. And the main reason there is no concrete plans to build a new stadium or arena will be because the Mayor and Ownership can't even agree on any plan.
Yet here we are in 2018 stuck with a Mayor that wants it all his way regarding both facilities and ownership that wants it all their way. There seems to be No middle ground either way & no intent to begin real negotiations.

It's an entire council that rejects the Flames proposal. The city's offer is at least something to build on, the Flames has no basis of reality.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

The answer would be an overwelming no way if 15 years ago you asked fans of the Flames and or Stampeders in 2018 that the city of Calgary and ownership would be home of the oldest facilities in both league's. And the main reason there is no concrete plans to build a new stadium or arena will be because the Mayor and Ownership can't even agree on any plan.
Yet here we are in 2018 stuck with a Mayor that wants it all his way regarding both facilities and ownership that wants it all their way. There seems to be No middle ground either way & no intent to begin real negotiations.

So if this is true, what do you understand Nenshi and the City to mean when they say that they are willing to keep negotiating, and that they remain ready to work with the Flames on a solution as soon as they return to the table?

[Cappy]

Bettman "There is no basis for building under the current economic circumstances"

Who's F'ing fault is that. You are the Commissioner of the league that needs government subsidies to survive. That's on you, Gary.

[Poster]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

If the Flames really are willing to sit on their hands for a few years until something changes that seems to be a pretty good indication the Saddledome is still functional enough for them, despite the claims it is not.

The words right out of my mouth!

I still dont get why anyone thinks the Flames shouldnt be paying for the entire building costs. Its their business, their profits, why shouldnt they pay for it?

Any other for private business not expected to BUILD & PAY TAXES on their for profit facilities?

Seems an odd position to take that the Flames owners are upset because the city wants them to pay for their building.

[Poster]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Bettman "There is no basis for building under the current economic circumstances"

Who's F'ing fault is that. You are the Commissioner of the league that needs government subsidies to survive. That's on you, Gary.

and on that note, if thre is no good reason for the owners to build it, doesnt the same hold true for the taxpayers?

Nenshi "There is no basis for building under the current economic circumstances" holds true as well!

The city isnt asking for a new arena, the Flames are. Seems there is a basis for the Flames, they should go make it happen if its so vital to their business.

Or .. the Saddledome still provides the best opportunity in all of North America for the Flames. I say when it doesnt, they can leave if they want.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Bettman "There is no basis for building under the current economic circumstances"

Who's F'ing fault is that. You are the Commissioner of the league that needs government subsidies to survive. That's on you, Gary.

Not exclusively.

Bettman is simply following the North American professional sports playbook, which was written by decades of public money being funnelled to wealthy NFL and MLB teams as well as owners in the NHL and NBA.

It's the model that is broken. Calgary is the market showing the first crack, so it is no surprise that Bettmann is going to do his utmost to seal it in the short term. I have little doubt that this is the first domino of a wholesale change in how US and Canadian sports franchises conduct business. Expect an increase in hardball negotiations that see more cities calling the bluff of team owners who are looking for publicly funded, privately owned arenas.

[Northendzone]

i think what annoys me the most when bettman talks about government funding for a new building, i get the feeling he thinks the city has billions laying around and the city is just looking for a way to spend it.

i feel like he seems forget about funding infrastructure, schools, public transit etc along with the fact that all government is in the hole by millions and billions.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Poster

The city isnt asking for a new arena, the Flames are. Seems there is a basis for the Flames, they should go make it happen if its so vital to their business.

I think the city is asking for a new arena, as much as the flames are.

[I_H8_Crawford]

What's funny is in talking with someone involved with one of the other '88 legacy pieces of infrastructure, he mentioned that the IOC wants to come to Calgary for another reason... they want the venues build in '88 to be re-used, as that helps them with telling their story that investment in infrastructure for the Olympics is truly helping the city/country for DECADES.

So IOC would probably want Calgary to use the Saddledome for some stuff regardless of new arena or not.

[Flamenspiel]

np

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

What's funny is in talking with someone involved with one of the other '88 legacy pieces of infrastructure, he mentioned that the IOC wants to come to Calgary for another reason... they want the venues build in '88 to be re-used, as that helps them with telling their story that investment in infrastructure for the Olympics is truly helping the city/country for DECADES.

So IOC would probably want Calgary to use the Saddledome for some stuff regardless of new arena or not.

Well to be fair, they would have to.

It will probably be used for figure skating which makes sense as it is the second largest attraction at the Olympics behind hockey. They would need their own venue as much as hockey would, unless the Corral or Max Bell was utilized...which would scream amateur hour at best and lose up to 10,000 seats PER EVENT.

It is becoming more and more transparent that the IOC wants Calgary as much as Calgary wants the games. I really am starting to wonder if the Calgary bid group, once given a mandate, can extract anything from the IOC themselves in regards to funding. Which would be a complete 180 from anything ever seen in this regard before.

One thing that the city simply cannot accept though is sharing the games with other cities. Particularly the hockey...i get there may be really good reasons for the ski jumping to go to Whistler, but beyond that if the city cannot provide venues for everything else, they need to bow out.