Black Lives Matter get police float kicked out of Pride Parade

[icecube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

What is this supposed to mean?

I think he's implying that your "moderate" stance on everything isn't as progressive as you like to think it is. He is inferring that he has his doubts that you'd be supportive of the pride parades themselves during their origins. And if we are being honest, it aint hard to pick out many of the posters on this board who are always annoyed at anything to do with social justice efforts.

[Thor]

The regressive left strikes again?

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by peter12

You don't think that there are other marginalized groups utilizing other methods for handling the business of trying to be less marginalized?

This sounds like a smug straight white person trying to justify everything at the cost of nothing.

Nope, I just know it's not my place to tell them how to handle their struggle.

You don't see the hilarity that you, peter12 the straight white Christian crusader, a part of literally the most entitled and well off group of people in the world let alone north America, is upset because these uppity blacks aren't protesting the way you see fit. If they just knew their place and did as you said things would be fine, right?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by peter12

Your attitude/perspective is a clear example of the cognitive distortions brought about by this kind of in your face antagonism. You anonymize posters on this board so that you can out yourself as the only different person here. We are all white, straight, upper-middle class, ignorant, liberals, but you are the radical seer. It's a real problem.

I'm white, upper-middle class, ignorant, and liberalish too, Pete. I'm not a radical seer, and I know for a fact you are better than dismissing my world view as some attempt at outing myself as some unique radical. If you're not better than that, then the multiple PMs we've exchanged, even the ones where you praised the struggle of the gay community, where we've discussed things in context of your religious beliefs, were basically meaningless garbage. And that would sadden me.

My opinion is going to be different then a few posters regarding "identity politics". Obviously.

You get straight indignant when non-religious folk talk about religion in a way you don't like. But a gay person can't share their opinion on a identity politics issue directly related to the gay community without being labelled as some wannabe radical? Good to know.

I got called a jerk for responding to being called a regressive liberal who is a danger to a converged society, and a pompous radical seer for giving an opinion as a gay person on a gay politics issue. Fun, thanks you two.

But also, a genuine thanks to Cliff for being able to disagree with a bit of snarl and still not taking it personal.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

This is the whitest thing I have ever read on this forum.

Why don't you show me a story of a Canadian Policeman shooting an innocent black kid for no reason, getting paid leave and facing no consequences?

Because that's a typical slow news day in America.

If you think Canadian and American police have the same moral code and follow the same standards then you really need to read a book and educate yourself a little bit.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I got called a jerk for responding to being called a regressive liberal who is a danger to a converged society

Want to quote where in the thread I called you a "regressive liberal" or "a danger to a converged society"? Either one will do.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by icecube

And if we are being honest, it aint hard to pick out many of the posters on this board who are always annoyed at anything to do with social justice efforts.

As one of those people, I'll simply re-iterate that the identity politics left and their social justice efforts are illiberal, and I oppose them as a liberal.

What do I mean by liberal? I mean I believe people should be able to do and say what they like so long as they do not harm other people. As a liberal, I wrote articles in the college paper 25 years ago denouncing the practice of landlords kicking out gay tenants. I championed gay marriage long before it was cool, including forceful exchanges with my boss at the time.

This sort of tarring people with the bigotry brush of they don't agree with your agenda is tiresome. Someone can agree that X is a problem, while disagreeing that A, B, and C are the source of the problem and D, E, and F are the best ways to address it. But the identity politics left have cultivated a climate where to even question any of A, B, C, D, E, or F, is to reveal yourself as someone who can be immediately denounced as a bigot and an enemy. Basically, they hate openly debating their agendas in a public dialog, and like all dogmatists (including their counterparts on the right), they will employ shaming, intimidation, or coercion to shut down discussion.

As someone who thinks every issue under the sun should be freely, openly, and publicly examined, analysed, and debated from every possible angle, without resort to ad hominem or poisoning the well, I regard their tactics as a threat to my core values. And as someone who judges people as individuals, who judges the opinions of others and want my own opinions to be judged on their own merit, I find their imposition of a hierarchy of privilege on any social discourse to be risible nonsense.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Why don't you show me a story of a Canadian Policeman shooting an innocent black kid for no reason, getting paid leave and facing no consequences?

Well according to anti-BLM voices, this doesn't happen in the USA either. They always deserve it.

Much like the high incarceration (or "missing") rates for Natives in Canada. Or the fact that police suspect shootings have jumped massively in the last 5 years, and that those shot are predominantly people of color.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...cers_in_Canada

No, it's not as bad as it is in the US, but using the USA as a metric for shootings is a pretty poor choice IMO.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

But also, a genuine thanks to Cliff for being able to disagree with a bit of snarl and still not taking it personal.

I don't take any of this stuff personally. If we were having this discussion in a pub, I'd be buying the next round. And I hope others take it in the same spirit.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Want to quote where in the thread I called you a "regressive liberal" or "a danger to a converged society"? Either one will do.

Sure.

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Hey look! Malcolm X's civil rights attitude won! #### MLK, that wimp.

Look, I pretty much give up. An event like this speaks for itself and peoples' intuitions about it tell you how they look at the world. If people like Psycnet and Pepsifree can look at an event like this and say, "Yeah, this represents the sort of thing I'm in favour of. This isn't at all misguided or counterproductive. Good job guys. Keep giv'n'r"... then there's nothing left to talk about. I'm seriously out of hope for any possibility of convergence. We're speaking different languages.

I just really hope everyone stops capitulating to these #######s.

I'm going to go ahead and say you believe BLM to be representative of regressive liberalism (since you've stated as much in the past), and assume your loss of hope for convergence was a direct result of my support of those regressive liberals since it was the next sentence.

But you're free to enlighten me to my misunderstanding and what you were really saying. I'm open.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Well according to anti-BLM voices, this doesn't happen in the USA either. They always deserve it.

Much like the high incarceration (or "missing") rates for Natives in Canada. Or the fact that police suspect shootings have jumped massively in the last 5 years, and that those shot are predominantly people of color.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...cers_in_Canada

No, it's not as bad as it is in the US, but using the USA as a metric for shootings is a pretty poor choice IMO.

And this organization was founded in the USA BECAUSE of the metric of shootings. It's not an issue worthy of debate in Canada because it's not a problem.

I would sooner support a 'Native Lives Matter' organization because it IS an actual issue in Canada. Organizations like BLM in Canada are just drawing focus away from the actual issues in Canada.

[rubecube]

The whitewashing of the identity politics, which was used by certain groups to get to the progress we're at today, under the banner of liberalism is pretty insulting to said groups.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

But you're free to enlighten me to my misunderstanding and what you were really saying. I'm open.

Yeah, I said neither of those things in that post. The closest I got was saying that you and I see the world very differently and I have little hope for our viewpoints to converge, that we're going to be able to come to some agreement, so there's little point in trying to convince you. So when you accuse me of having called you a "danger to a converged society", I first of all have no idea what a "converged society" is or whether I'd even want that, and second... just... no. I never said that.

As for whether BLM is regressive, I think identity politics deliberately divides people into separate classes with separate inherent expected interests based on race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. and then engages in a bizarre, absurd practice of attempting to determine who's more aggrieved than who based entirely on a person's membership in said groups. That's pretty illiberal. But I don't recall personally accusing you of anything. So, no. I never said that either.

I still don't think there's any point in arguing but it's hard not to respond when someone puts words in your mouth.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by jammies

Making demands that the Pride parade doesn't include the police is a "you aren't being inclusive enough because you're not excluding this group we don't like" move. I don't have to be gay, or black, or black and gay, to see that this is not the way forward to a more tolerant society.

There are plenty of gay people beyond the BLM crowd that aren't happy with police involvement in Pride for perfectly legitimate reasons.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

As one of those people, I'll simply re-iterate that the identity politics left and their social justice efforts are illiberal, and I oppose them as a liberal.

What do I mean by liberal? I mean I believe people should be able to do and say what they like so long as they do not harm other people. As a liberal, I wrote articles in the college paper 25 years ago denouncing the practice of landlords kicking out gay tenants. I championed gay marriage long before it was cool, including forceful exchanges with my boss at the time.

This sort of tarring people with the bigotry brush of they don't agree with your agenda is tiresome. Someone can agree that X is a problem, while disagreeing that A, B, and C are the source of the problem and D, E, and F are the best ways to address it. But the identity politics left have cultivated a climate where to even question any of A, B, C, D, E, or F, is to reveal yourself as someone who can be immediately denounced as a bigot and an enemy. Basically, they hate openly debating their agendas in a public dialog, and like all dogmatists (including their counterparts on the right), they will employ shaming, intimidation, or coercion to shut down discussion.

As someone who thinks every issue under the sun should be freely, openly, and publicly examined, analysed, and debated from every possible angle, without resort to ad hominem or poisoning the well, I regard their tactics as a threat to my core values. And as someone who judges people as individuals, who judges the opinions of others and want my own opinions to be judged on their own merit, I find their imposition of a hierarchy of privilege on any social discourse to be risible nonsense.

Good post but because you're a super duper entitled white male Resalien and I are just gonna ignore your points. Better luck next life.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Good post but because you're a super duper entitled white male Resalien and I are just gonna ignore your points. Better luck next life.

? ...umm ok. I don't mind cliff at all, even though I disagree with him on almost everything he's reasonable and makes his points well enough. I assume you have something to add to the conversation or did you just want to invoke my name to try and make some point?

I should probably ask psych and rube if I'm allowed to join the SJW club. I hear the parties are just the tops.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

I should probably ask psych and rube if I'm allowed to join the SJW club. I hear the parties are just the tops.

Do you enjoy making zines?

[PsYcNeT]

I'm just in it to smell my own farts.

[rubecube]

I'd also like to add that in the history of civil disobedience/disruption, which has historically been a much more successful tactic for activists than peaceful protest, that this basically has all the ferociousness of teacup bunny.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I'd also like to add that in the history of civil disobedience/disruption, which has historically been a much more successful tactic for activists than peaceful protest, that this basically has all the ferociousness of teacup bunny.

Yeah but they could have been much more polite about their civil disobedience, don't you think?