[Trade] Leafs trade Spaling/Polak to SJ for two 2nd rd picks

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I get what you are saying, FDW, and I generally agree with your overall point. But Roman Polak is not going to put the Sharks over the Ducks or Kings any more than Deryk Engelland got us past Anaheim last year. Polak adds value fancy stats don't see, but he doesn't add enough to counter the negatives that those stats do identify.

Personally I think Polak is a bit more nasty, mean and physical consistently than Engelland. I think they are comparable defensemen but Polak has even more of an edge IMO. Engelland might be a bit better puck mover. Yeah Polak doesn't put you over the top. But with an old core the Sharks need to go for it now or tear down. He's the kind of depth move that helps for the playoffs so I understand it.

Polak over a 7 game series is going to grind down the opposition forwards. Which is needed when LA and ANA are huge and are going to grind down your entire team over a 7 game series. It's like a war of attrition. You can help your war effort by adding physical defensive defensemen or power forwards.

Would the Ducks have manhandled us more or less if we didn't have Engelland? Probably more. Our forwards cannot stack up against theirs so I'm not sure we'd win the series adding Chris Pronger in his prime.

Bottom line to me is the Sharks improved slightly and paid a steep price to do so. This is the type of player that a lot of playoff teams will covet. Doesn't mean he's going to singlehandedly do anything but I understand why they'd target him based on how big, strong, tough and skilled our division is.

[VladtheImpaler]

I think Polak is to some extent like Sarich - more useful in the playoffs than in the regular season. That said, I think the Sharks threw away 2 decent picks because they are going to lose in the 1st round with or without Polak. He doesn't mitigate the fairly large margin between them and the Kings/Ducks.

[Pliddy]

Are the Leafs doing a rebuild or are they defending Mother Russia from an invasion? It's hard to tell

[868904]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I don't think you've proven he isn't.

Polak is a good, strong, physical defensive defensemen. Over a playoff series he's going to make the other team pay the price. If they wanna crash the cease they're going to have to get abused. He helps you win in the playoffs. He may injure the opponents or make them think twice about going into the corner with him or going to the front of the net.

I just don't think your fancy stats really capture the whole story on physical defensive defensemen. I'm not sure they ever will.

You wanna win in the playoffs? Add some physical defensive defensemen and power forwards. The fancy stats may not prove how much they help in the playoffs but you aren't going to get anywhere without some size, strength and sandpaper. I don't need fancy stats to prove it because I've watched it for two decades with my own eyes.

SJ needs to go through ANA and LA to win the cup. You wanna beat forwards like Maroon, Perry, Getlzaf, Kesler, Lucic, etc in a 7 game series? You're gonna need some beef on the blue line. Polak is a frickin warrior and will make life miserable for those big forwards in the Pacific whenever he's on the ice.

A bit off topic of me, but I agree with what you are saying. Although the results were the same, it was nice to see Nakladal and Wotherspoon stop Duck cycles last night by physically seperating an Anaheim forward from the puck.

These guys might still give up a shot or scoring chance, but at least the other team won't be cycling around them for a couple of minutes first. I think it's pretty demoralizing for a team to have guys like Russell and Wideman constantly chasing the opposition around the outside while the opposition waits for a good scoring chance. Not to mention the momentum it gives the other team while tiring out the defenders.

I really don't know how advanced stats work and don't care, but I prefer my defenders to give up a shot with only a 10 - 20 second cycle and then get the puck back, versus giving up a shot with a 30 second plus cycle and only a 50% chance of getting the puck back.

I find the Flames current defensive system really taxing on the defensemen and forwards. It's a real rope a dope system, but you can't really play rope a dope as a constant strategy. You can use it occasionally, but to base your entire defensive system on it seems really stupid. Muhammad Ali is famous for using the rope a dope to beat George Foreman, but he really ever only used that strategy that one time. It doesn't make logical sense to play any sport like that.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Bottom line to me is the Sharks improved slightly and paid a steep price to do so. This is the type of player that a lot of playoff teams will covet. Doesn't mean he's going to singlehandedly do anything but I understand why they'd target him based on how big, strong, tough and skilled our division is.

Yeah, the why is definitely easy to understand. But god... they gave up two second rounders in a year where they are first round fodder for LA or Anaheim regardless. Steep price indeed. And a poorly considered purchase, imo. Especially for a team in decline. Calgary or Phoenix could push them out of the playoffs in the next couple years and make those picks high 30s.

[dammage79]

I'm not sold that the Sharks would be fodder to the Kings or Ducks.

[Stud_McCool]

Would not surprise me to see Polak injured before the playoffs start, thus missing the entire first round series against the other Cali teams. That 2nd rounder for him will be a tough pill to swallow for SJ.

[dammage79]

There's been lots of talk that this years draft is really weak, so mid to lower 2nd round picks aren't as valuable as deeper drafts. This looks like a season where 2nd picks carry the lowest value in recent memory.

The draft is said to drop off in a big way in the middle of the 2nd round. I think this might be a year where the international players that aren't scouted as heavily go much higher than usual.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by dammage79

There's been lots of talk that this years draft is really weak, so mid to lower 2nd round picks aren't as valuable as deeper drafts. This looks like a season where 2nd picks carry the lowest value in recent memory.

The draft is said to drop off in a big way in the middle of the 2nd round. I think this might be a year where the international players that aren't scouted as heavily go much higher than usual.

Well neither of the picks are for this year.

[BigTuna]

Terrific move by Lou (I thought he was done?) 2 second rounders for that?

It's getting to the point the Leafs have too many picks and might need to combine some to move-up in the draft. You can only have 50 contracts.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by dammage79

There's been lots of talk that this years draft is really weak, so mid to lower 2nd round picks aren't as valuable as deeper drafts. This looks like a season where 2nd picks carry the lowest value in recent memory.

The draft is said to drop off in a big way in the middle of the 2nd round. I think this might be a year where the international players that aren't scouted as heavily go much higher than usual.

Makes the trade worse for SJ then. The picks are for 2017 and 18'. And the Sharks don't look like a team that will finish that high the next couple of years.

[TheScorpion]

[BigTuna]

BTW, a few argued with me on here that the Leafs got hosed on the Polak/Gunarrson swap. I did tell you all Gunarrsom was damaged goods. Leafs won that trade.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I await the Big Tuna post where Polak suddenly is a bad defenceman.

He's not bad. He's just better than Carl Gunnarrson and today was a great trade.

[OzSome]

Leafs is trying to beat the Edmonton Oilers for Matthews' sweepstakes. They figured with the Oilers luck in winning 1st pick overall every single draft they had to make sure they are in last place at the end season.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

BTW, a few argued with me on here that the Leafs got hosed on the Polak/Gunarrson swap. I did tell you all Gunarrsom was damaged goods. Leafs won that trade.

They also gave up a pick and retained salary to trade a bottom pair guy for another bottom pair guy. Big win

[GioforPM]

What a few guys have noted is that this direction the Leafs are taking is entirely inconsistent with any notion of going for Stamkos.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

What a few guys have noted is that this direction the Leafs are taking is entirely inconsistent with any notion of going for Stamkos.

In what way?

Trading a long-term, high value contract of their captain certainly follows. If anything, that could be argued was a necessity to go for Stamkos.

Trading Shawn Matthias and Roman Polak has no bearing on Stamkos. UFA depth players being traded by a team with no chance at the playoffs, nothing new.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

What a few guys have noted is that this direction the Leafs are taking is entirely inconsistent with any notion of going for Stamkos.

??? There's a whole offseason yet. Holding on to UFAs has no bearing on what their plans are next year

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by OzSome

Leafs is trying to beat the Edmonton Oilers for Matthews' sweepstakes. They figured with the Oilers luck in winning 1st pick overall every single draft they had to make sure they are in last place at the end season.

Silly Leafs. Oilers don't need to be in last to win.