Grade BURKE's trade deadline day

[Miniac]

Burke gets a C+ from me.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

That's fair, but then giving a guy an F--- or whatever for not taking a bad deal doesn't seem like the right grade, or a grade that even exists.

Well I mentioned I think a Hemsky type deal was out there for Cammy and I think that is a fine deal.

I also see 0 benefit in keeping Cammy on the table so getting anything for him is better than the nothing we have right now so I don't see how he could have got a bad deal (outside of ridiculous made up deals that would never happen.)

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by New Era

The fact that Edmonton got more out of Hemsky, another piss poor one way hockey player, than Burke got out of Cammalleri says a lot.

What I think it really says at the end of the day is that the other GM's and scouts aren't blind and have noticed that Cammalleri has played poor-mediocre this season. We were hoping GM's would fondly remember his past playoff performances and ignore his current form but that wasn't the case and I can't say I blame them.

Hemsky got a late little push with that 2 goal night last night including a highlight reel wowza goal. What has Cammalleri done lately? Not much.

Usually GM's overvalue and overpay for scoring wingers at the deadline and undervalue goalies. It seems this year that there might be a bit of a leaguewide correction in thought on that matter.

[djsFlames]

If I was Burke a couple minutes before the deadline, anything less than a 2nd +, knowing the other returns I was bringing in, and I would've walked away too. Trading Cammy for a 3rd or a 4th is giving him away for a 10% chance at a player even playing a game in the NHL, so virtually nothing, and makes us come across as doormats. He's worth more than Stempniak at least, so I'm on Burke's side here.

I'm tired of us feeling underwhelmed with returns for our valued assets. There's more value in him potentially re-signing here to be a leader in the rebuild than trading him for a mid round pick.

I don't know why the market was so ridiculously tough this deadline, but most other years Cammy even if in a lull stats-wise like he is, would still fetch a 1st given his resume. Why lay down for the market just to get rubbish because you're in a rebuild and it's 'expected' of you? #### that.

[Huntingwhale]

Burke gets a C+ from me. He bent the Avs over backwards and filled them with meat. That makes the Bouwmeester trade look a ton better. I didn't see Berra being signed at season's end so to get a 2nd for him is highway robbery.

Stempniak I'm glad he got something. Disappointing to see Cammy still here. If we lose him for nothing in the summer, that's a disaster. Hopefully he re-signs then has a better season next year and garners a 1st. Same with Butler. But we really have no one to replace him right now so I'm fine with that.

I sure wish Burke was the one who was in charge of the trading last season. I can't help but feel that if he were at the helm with Iggy and Bouwmeester in his fingers that we would be well ahead of the curve. The returns for Iggy, Regehr and Bouwmeester, if handled properly, really could have propelled the franchise forward. All the talk a couple years ago was about how many great assets the Flames had that could garner a richness of returns. All Burke had this season really was Cammy...and apparently Berra. He did a decent job considering what he had to work with.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

What I think it really says at the end of the day is that the other GM's and scouts aren't blind and have noticed that Cammalleri has played poor-mediocre this season. We were hoping GM's would fondly remember his past playoff performances and ignore his current form but that wasn't the case and I can't say I blame them.

Hemsky got a late little push with that 2 goal night last night including a highlight reel wowza goal. What has Cammalleri done lately? Not much.

Usually GM's overvalue and overpay for scoring wingers at the deadline and undervalue goalies. It seems this year that there might be a bit of a leaguewide correction in thought on that matter.

Agreed. Pretty tough to bullshat PRO Scouts. They report what they see and Cammalleri has not given them much to get excited about.

Performances 3 or 4 years ago in the playoffs don't mean much when he has performed consistently below average this season.

[kirant]

B.

Thought Butler will be staying. I thought Cammalleri might be extremely difficult to move and it has been no shock to me that he wasn't traded as a rental since the market price may have been too low. Pleasantly surprised at the return for Berra and Stempniak went for what seemed like market value.

[cowtown75]

I was initially pissed that nothing decent came down for Cammy but it was a weird day all around and I don't think anything of value was offered- see Vanek, Moulson, deals that expected a 1st in return. No one went for a 1st rounder which in itself was a surprise. Even if Burke lowered his demands, which I read he did, the return didn't make sense. If the market isn't there, you can't force it. And you shouldn't give things away- ala Cammy for a 4th say. You can get that on draft day if he isn't re-signed by then to a decent contract for his rights alone I'm sure. The more I think about it, keeping Cammy may not be a bad idea and let's face it, most of us who wanted Cammy traded was so we could get a decent return for the future- not give the guy away for garbage.

I think the big winner was Burke getting a second rounder for Berra in all honesty as when I heard that, I couldn't believe it. As much as I'm not the biggest Butler fan, he has improved and can be signed to a value contract and is a very serviceable 5-6 D. So, getting a 2nd and a 3rd today for Berra and Stemps was a win in my books. We will either sign Butler to a cheap contract as we got leverage and I believe there is still time to do something with Cammy by draft day- especially if we re-sign him to a decent contract by then and isn't a rental anymore.

I give Burkie an A-

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by Miniac

Burke gets a C+ from me.

I'd agree with this.

Good return for Berra, better than expected.

Stempniak was a decent return, but Marcel Goc returned better, so I'd say Burke could have gotten more there.

Cammalleri should have been traded. Burke can preach about how teams won't be able to take advantage of the future GM, but that's just posturing. It's extremely unlikely that he's re-signing here, so they've lost him for nothing, and that's poor asset management in my mind.

Butler should have been moved.

All in all, the Berra deal was the only real win today. IMO, of course.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by getoverit

Not sure how to do a poll here, if you had to grade Burke's first trade deadline with the Flames what would you grade him.

C-

Loses major marks for not moving Cammy and loses a little bit more for not moving Butler. However he earns some back for getting an oddly high price for Berra and an expected return on Stempniak. Will fall into the "D+" range if he's not able to secure Cammy to a reasonable short term deal before free agency.

[Phanuthier]

Maybe other long time posters here can help me refresh my memory, but has there historically ever been so much outrage over the loss of not dealing a pending UFA for a middle round pick?

Tim Jackman? Olli Jokinen? .... Dave Gagner?

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by cowtown75

I was initially pissed that nothing decent came down for Cammy but it was a weird day all around and I don't think anything of value was offered- see Vanek, Moulson, deals that expected a 1st in return. No one went for a 1st rounder which in itself was a surprise. Even if Burke lowered his demands, which I read he did, the return didn't make sense. If the market isn't there, you can't force it. And you shouldn't give things away- ala Cammy for a 4th say. You can get that on draft day if he isn't re-signed by then to a decent contract for his rights alone I'm sure. The more I think about it, keeping Cammy may not be a bad idea and let's face it, most of us who wanted Cammy traded was so we could get a decent return for the future- not give the guy away for garbage.

I think the big winner was Burke getting a second rounder for Berra in all honesty as when I heard that, I couldn't believe it. As much as I'm not the biggest Butler fan, he has improved and can be signed to a value contract and is a very serviceable 5-6 D. So, getting a 2nd and a 3rd today for Berra and Stemps was a win in my books. We will either sign Butler to a cheap contract as we got leverage and I believe there is still time to do something with Cammy by draft day- especially if we re-sign him to a decent contract by then and isn't a rental anymore.

I give Burkie an A-

I'm getting really sick of calling a 4th a garbage return. Is Brodie garbage? Apparently by that definition he is.

The market is the market and while it would humbling to announce you took the best package that you could given the market, it sure beats this tough ass stance where you cut off your nose to spite your face.

A+ for Berra deal, C for Stempniak, F on Butler and Cammalleri. D+ overall.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

I'm getting really sick of calling a 4th a garbage return. Is Brodie garbage? Apparently by that definition he is.

The market is the market and while it would humbling to announce you took the best package that you could given the market, it sure beats this tough ass stance where you cut off your nose to spite your face.

A+ for Berra deal, C for Stempniak, F on Butler and Cammalleri. D+ overall.

How do you know Burke cut off his nose / spite in (their) face?

[cowtown75]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

I'm getting really sick of calling a 4th a garbage return. Is Brodie garbage? Apparently by that definition he is.

The market is the market and while it would humbling to announce you took the best package that you could given the market, it sure beats this tough ass stance where you cut off your nose to spite your face.

A+ for Berra deal, C for Stempniak, F on Butler and Cammalleri. D+ overall.

A 4th is a garbage return for Cammy. Every pick in every round counts, and yeah, some later round picks get lucky ala Brodie, or Datsyk, or Zetterberg- but you don't set your watch to it or do you expect much from it. Cammy is a good player and you don't give him away for ####. You keep him, sign him instead and see what you do with him after you sign him- or deal his rights at the draft.

[Completely]

Cant judge this until july 1st or if Cammys signed. Could be less than stellar if Cammy walks, but if hes re-signed then it looks a whole lot better.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

How do you know Burke cut off his nose / spite in (their) face?

Turning down a trade offer which would result in picks that would be helpful in rebuilding the organization because it did not meet his expectations of what HE felt the player was worth is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Hurt the team by rejecting picks that could be used to improve the team long run, whether it be through trade or draft selection. Instead left with zip.

[trackercowe]

For those saying a third round pick is worth nothing, well look no further than at our defensive core to see what those sort of picks can get (Brodie, Russell, heck Giordano wasn't even drafted). In all likelihood to those picks amount to nothing? Yah probably, the picks wouldn't have amounted to much, but it's still that much more than the nothing we'll be getting from Cammy once he is gone in July. As an example of what the 3rd round can amount to, just in checking Russell's 2005 draft in the same round Letang, Quick, Franson, Russell, Ben Bishop, and Mark Fraser were all taken.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

For those saying a third round pick is worth nothing, well look no further than at our defensive core to see what those sort of picks can get (Brodie, Russell, heck Giordano wasn't even drafted). In all likelihood to those picks amount to nothing? Yah probably, the picks wouldn't have amounted to much, but it's still that much more than the nothing we'll be getting from Cammy once he is gone in July.

I wouldn't say its nothing, but I can see why Burke was holding out for more, and if the risk is a mid-round pick.... I don't see it as a big deal. A 3rd or 4th would be great, don't get me wrong.... but I'm sorry if I don't see it as such a raging big deal like you guys do.

Again, you guys ignored this post before, but do you guys stress this much every year about pending UFAs that did not go for mid-round picks?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

For those saying a third round pick is worth nothing, well look no further than at our defensive core to see what those sort of picks can get (Brodie, Russell, heck Giordano wasn't even drafted). In all likelihood to those picks amount to nothing? Yah probably, the picks wouldn't have amounted to much, but it's still that much more than the nothing we'll be getting from Cammy once he is gone in July. As an example of what the 3rd round can amount to, just in checking Russell's 2005 draft in the same round Letang, Quick, Franson, Russell, Ben Bishop, and Mark Fraser were all taken.

Yeah, you're probably right but I think there is some truth to Burke saying he doesn't want to be known as a guy who starts caving as the deadline approaches. Burke has built up history as been a tough seller, hell I'd imagine that history helped him in trading Berra. Burke said the Avalanche called him last week and he stated his price, it took him up until the deadline to get what he wants but he got it.

Plenty of assumption going on by me, I'll admit but stuff like this can pay off down the line. Don't be known as a guy who starts panicking as the deadline approaches. Burke might not be the GM moving forward but he'll still very much be apart of the process.

[Ashasx]

Burke the Redeemer.

B.