Messier joins Oilers as "advisor to the team"

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by New Era

Who is the GM? Do we have anyone minding the shop right now? We know Burke is on the college circuit right now, talking to teams about hockey. We know he's balls deep into Team USA right now. What's going on with the Flames right now?



We're coming up to one of the most critical points in our season, and likely to have a significant impact on the direction the rebuild takes, and you're okay waiting until after that point to hire a GM? Patience is for waiting for your youth to develop. Patience does not include letting your team languish while your attention is elsewhere.



If you can't look at the two teams and see the dramatic difference then I don't know what to tell you. Four players over 30 points and not one of them older than 25. Our best young player hasn't cracked 20 points yet. We are in a world of hurt and things are only going to get worse. This may be the most important trade deadline in team history, yes, even more important than last season's, because we are divesting ourselves of most of our veteran leadership. We need our course charted and all our homework done prior to this moment in time, not months after it. We may see this trade deadline come and go and see nothing but opportunity lost. You know, like how we were going to use all that cap space available to us to rob teams blind of good prospects for bad contracts. How did that work out for us? Oh yeah, we watched that boat sail away without doing anything. I'll make fun of the Oilers for their incompetence, but the Flames have raced next to them and are trending in a worse direction.

Now that Team USA has been announced, how much time do we know it takes him each week? You seriously think he isn't talking daily about the Calgary Flames and trying to find the right guy for the job as GM?

I think Burke knows what sort of opportunity is coming up at the draft and I think he can handle it just fine. Yes, he might be distracted but I know the Flames brass haven't paid him to be a part time VP of Hockey OPs.

at this point, I don't care what those individuals are doing in Edmonton, what has it shown? I would rather we a culture that isn't what is going on up there. Balanced scoring with a couple super stars thrown in there, yes, that is probably the goal. Do we have that right now? No. Will we in 3 years, I believe so.

This trade deadline will not make or break our future and chances of being cup contenders. There is a cap floor and we will hit it if we trade all our vets, as some feel is the route to take. Well, it isn't possible.

Funny how you think we are worse off than the Oilers, in terms of the direction (lack thereof according to some). I do not agree with this. Our future does look promising. We are stocking the prospect cupboard, we are drafting in the top 3 this coming draft and likely will have another 1st round pick after the trade deadline. Our superstar will come, how knows maybe we already have 1 or 2 in our club. Patience.

This trade deadline will not make or break our future.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Seriously? What "opportunity" did the Flames miss this season with Burke asleep at the wheel?

With regards to your whining, it's not like Burke just up and decided one day to start scouting and advising for the US Olympic team. He is honouring a commitment that he made over six years ago. Don't underestimate the sort of professional good will that these sorts of appointments potentially yield down the road.

Supposedly the Flames were going to take advantage of teams in cap trouble and get paid for their efforts. There were more than enough teams out there that could have been taken advantage of, but nothing materialized. I think the team just waited too damn long to make a deal, waiting for the bounty to just fall in their laps. Opportunity missed. I think the Flames had opportunity to move a vet or two earlier this season, but had ideas of making a big killing, which just aren't there any more. I think this is also has something to do with Burke's comments about Feaster not getting enough in return. I bet there were offers that Feaster was prepared to accept but Burke wasn't happy with the return, thinking he could get more himself. Hence his comments.

I hardly think pointing out Burke's involvement with Team USA as a distraction is whining. That is stating fact. If you want to play the commitment card, then so be it. He should have recognized this commitment and not fired the front office until he was prepared to take over full time, or commit to finding a replacement. I'd sure like you to explain the whole good will angle. What is Burke's involvement with Team USA going to do for the Calgary Flames? Seems like a stretch to me.

[moon]

Originally Posted by New Era

Supposedly the Flames were going to take advantage of teams in cap trouble and get paid for their efforts. There were more than enough teams out there that could have been taken advantage of, but nothing materialized. I think the team just waited too damn long to make a deal, waiting for the bounty to just fall in their laps. Opportunity missed. I think the Flames had opportunity to move a vet or two earlier this season, but had ideas of making a big killing, which just aren't there any more. I think this is also has something to do with Burke's comments about Feaster not getting enough in return. I bet there were offers that Feaster was prepared to accept but Burke wasn't happy with the return, thinking he could get more himself. Hence his comments.

What deals have been made by teams to shed salary and give up good assets this year? Perhaps it isn't that Burke is asleep at the wheel and that other teams don't want to just give us assets and give away pieces for money.

And wasn't that Feaster's grand plan before Burke even came here?

I hardly think pointing out Burke's involvement with Team USA as a distraction is whining. That is stating fact. If you want to play the commitment card, then so be it. He should have recognized this commitment and not fired the front office until he was prepared to take over full time, or commit to finding a replacement. I'd sure like you to explain the whole good will angle. What is Burke's involvement with Team USA going to do for the Calgary Flames? Seems like a stretch to me.

Burke is the President, not even the GM of the team. He is involved with ~ 6 other GM's along with Pittsburgh coaching staff. Throw in the Canadian team and that is a whole lot of GM's/teams that are screwed with their GM's being asleep at the wheel.

Detroit, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Boston have both their coaches and GM's involved hard to imagine they can even win a game with their hockey staff ignoring the team.

[trublmaker]

Originally Posted by New Era

Supposedly the Flames were going to take advantage of teams in cap trouble and get paid for their efforts. There were more than enough teams out there that could have been taken advantage of, but nothing materialized. I think the team just waited too damn long to make a deal, waiting for the bounty to just fall in their laps. Opportunity missed. I think the Flames had opportunity to move a vet or two earlier this season, but had ideas of making a big killing, which just aren't there any more. I think this is also has something to do with Burke's comments about Feaster not getting enough in return. I bet there were offers that Feaster was prepared to accept but Burke wasn't happy with the return, thinking he could get more himself. Hence his comments.

I hardly think pointing out Burke's involvement with Team USA as a distraction is whining. That is stating fact. If you want to play the commitment card, then so be it. He should have recognized this commitment and not fired the front office until he was prepared to take over full time, or commit to finding a replacement. I'd sure like you to explain the whole good will angle. What is Burke's involvement with Team USA going to do for the Calgary Flames? Seems like a stretch to me.

"Supposedly".. really and then you just jump to all sorts of conclusions because of "supposedly". So you think Burke is just out there ignoring his job with the Flames and you're stating it as fact. The Flames obviously need you, where have been all this time.

[19Yzerman19]

Let's just take a moment to appreciate the best question that was asked of Moose during that AMA...

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by moon

Burke is the President, not even the GM of the team. He is involved with ~ 6 other GM's along with Pittsburgh coaching staff. Throw in the Canadian team and that is a whole lot of GM's/teams that are screwed with their GM's being asleep at the wheel.

Detroit, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Boston have both their coaches and GM's involved hard to imagine they can even win a game with their hockey staff ignoring the team.

Burke may as well be the GM right now, since we don't have one.

None of Detroit, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, and Boston are navigating through a critical rebuild and the worst season in franchise history. Do you not agree that the Flames require an above-average level of attention from "hockey ops" this year than teams that are leading their divisions?

[moon]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Burke may as well be the GM right now, since we don't have one.

None of Detroit, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, and Boston are navigating through a critical rebuild and the worst season in franchise history. Do you not agree that the Flames require an above-average level of attention from "hockey ops" this year than teams that are leading their divisions?

I meant he is president of the US team, Poile is the GM so Burke is helping out not the main guy for the US team.

I think that if his US team committments mean that he can't do the job of Calgary Flames GM right now then we are in a ton of trouble because that is pretty pathetic from Burke and shows that he is not close to being able to do the job of a GM, President or likely even popcorn guy for the Flames.

I also think trying to win a Stanley Cup and being on top of who is available to add to your team as a key piece is likely a pretty important job. As well as the day to day coaching of the Red Wings and Penguins might be something that is important.

[Five-hole]

To add to my point above, every one of the teams listed have an AGM (two, in the case of the Blues). Ours also got fired.

[sergei_makarov]

Originally Posted by moon

I meant he is president of the US team, Poile is the GM so Burke is helping out not the main guy for the US team.

I think that if his US team committments mean that he can't do the job of Calgary Flames GM right now then we are in a ton of trouble because that is pretty pathetic from Burke and shows that he is not close to being able to do the job of a GM, President or likely even popcorn guy for the Flames.

I also think trying to win a Stanley Cup and being on top of who is available to add to your team as a key piece is likely a pretty important job. As well as the day to day coaching of the Red Wings and Penguins might be something that is important.

I highly doubt the activities associated to being involved with the US team is interfering with his responsibilities as Calgary's President and interim GM. That's reaching.

[Five-hole]

Moon, you also deftly avoided my question. Do you or do you not agree that navigating through a critical rebuild during the worst season in franchise history requires an above-average level of attention from hockey ops?

[moon]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

To add to my point above, every one of the teams listed have an AGM (two, in the case of the Blues). Ours also got fired.

The Flames have numerous pro and amateur scouts, Craig Conroy doing the job of many Assistant GM's, Holditch to handle any cap issues etc.

Do you think that Chiarelli says to his Asst. GM "I am going to work on team Canada stuff you are in charge now?"

I guess if there were a bunch of deals going on and we seemed to be missing out on something I might understand the whining but hard to see how we are losing out with this situation, especially because so many successful teams have and have had their guys involved in these same things with little to no negative reprecussions.

Buffalo is in the same rebuilding/key time and they have Pat Lafontaine running the ship. It doesn't seem like Calgary is really doing anything that odd right now.

Would we be better off with Feaster and Wisebrod in place making horrible moves for the team just to appease some people's sense that we need a GM in place no matter how awful?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Burke may as well be the GM right now, since we don't have one.

None of Detroit, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, and Boston are navigating through a critical rebuild and the worst season in franchise history. Do you not agree that the Flames require an above-average level of attention from "hockey ops" this year than teams that are leading their divisions?

I'm more than willing to admit when I'm wrong. It appears I have over-estimated the importance of this trade deadline and maximizing the return on our soon to be free agents. We have plenty of time to right the ship and can wait until after the draft to hire a GM. Hey, as long as the Oilers continue to suck, all is good!

[moon]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Moon, you also deftly avoided my question. Do you or do you not agree that navigating through a critical rebuild during the worst season in franchise history requires an above-average level of attention from hockey ops?

I think overall it does but that is mainly important at the draft and to a lesser extent the trade deadline.

I don't think that from now until the Olympics it requires anymore attention than what Detroit or Boston does for example.

I also don't think it requires so much attention that a role with US (or any other country) would affect it at all.

[moon]

Originally Posted by New Era

I'm more than willing to admit when I'm wrong. It appears I have over-estimated the importance of this trade deadline and maximizing the return on our soon to be free agents. We have plenty of time to right the ship and can wait until after the draft to hire a GM. Hey, as long as the Oilers continue to suck, all is good!

I guess if you don't have any rebuttals pathetic sarcastic remarks making up stuff that nobody said works.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Moon, you also deftly avoided my question. Do you or do you not agree that navigating through a critical rebuild during the worst season in franchise history requires an above-average level of attention from hockey ops?

Speaking for myself, not really concerned, given the Flames situation this year with Cammalleri plus maybe a couple other minor trade peices in play. The other teams, the agents all know what's available (limited) and am sure Burke is in touch with other Gm's. Again, he works like Sutter. Not cuddled up to a local or national reporter to use to float out rumors.

He has cap space, two buyouts, budget space and a top 10 pick in 4 months in order to shape the long term view. In my opionion, as long as he is ready to act in the summer with those peices and tools at his disposal, and in the meantime build up the Flames as a destination for UFAs in the year ahead, building up what the previous regime stripped away (years of goodwill and trust) then Burke can do what he wants now.

Last season was the critical juncture for having competence overseeing operations... well before the plan to trade off the two or maybe three HoF players was discussed, the team flailed under the Gm's handpicked coach. Then the RoR debacle, and radio silence for almost two months from the guilty GM. Then he and those above him that were intertwined, had to scramble together deals for Iggy, Kipper and Jbo before the team's reputation sank deeper into the dung.

I would say the organization suffered immeasurable amounts more uncertainty last year with having who we had to make the franchise altering deals, than Burke not publicly fretting over the lack of a GM or making any moves yet with a barebones team playing for pride in January.

[getbak]

Burke had a bigger role with Team USA in 2010 than he does this year. I'm not really sure how active his role in Sochi even is at this point. They've named the team, what more is there left to do until they leave for Russia? I doubt Burke is arranging their flights.

In 2010, he was able to complete both the Phanuef and Giguere trades shortly before the Olympic break. I have no reason to believe he'll be any less able to do his job for the Flames this year.

[midniteowl]

I only have one question, how did a thread titled "Messier joins Oilers as "advisor to the team" endsup debating about Brian Burke?

[Fire]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

I only have one question, how did a thread titled "Messier joins Oilers as "advisor to the team" endsup debating about Brian Burke?

The thread needed more truculence.

[browna]

Messier clearly the catalyst for tonight's win over an EC opponent, and now 1-0 after his "coming out" revelation.

All those years fetching Sather coffee in NYC has paid off. Time to elevate him to Director of Player personnel.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by New Era

I'd be careful about pointing and laughing at the Oilers right now. Our team is a bigger joke and getting worse. The Oilers direction is flawed and laughable, but they have some semblance of direction. What is our direction again? Truculence? Our front office is a mess because it doesn't exist. We are at one of the most important points in team history, at a crossroads so to speak, and we don't even have a GM or a guy whose primary interest is our hockey club. We have no reason to point a finger at anyone right now and laugh at their mismanagement. We're circling the drain and trying to take solace there is another turd caught in the same vortex. That's a new low watermark if you ask me.

I really hate this type of post. Do you need to show your current distate with all things Flames this way? After drafting 1st 3 years in a row, why don't you give a few actual details about how they're better and what their direction is.