11 games in...rate the defencemen

[Armchair Quarterback]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I can fully understand where Wideman's previous play on other teams could form your opinion of him. His playoff appearance last year was down right terrible. And the year before that he was not that good either. So maybe, as was the case with Bouwmeester it was the coaching and philosophy of play that hampered him more than anything. Because he's been relaxed and calm and cool as a cucumber here. Maybe he just likes it here more than most. Who knows. But right now his play is spot on.

That, or this team is bad enough that it makes him look like a good player.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Armchair Quarterback

That, or this team is bad enough that it makes him look like a good player.

I really didn't think outside of our PK that our team has been as terrible as some would think. Two of our loses have been blowouts so to speak and the rest have been shoot out losses or one goal loses.

[showtime]

Originally Posted by moon

Brodie- A
Bouwmeester- B+
Wideman- C
Smith- C
Sarich- C
Giordano- D
Butler- D

Gio probably has played overall better than Smith and Sarich but he has been so bad and disappointing at times that it is frustrating to watch.

Bouwmeester has had moments where he has looked great but also had more defensive breakdowns and complete misses this year so that holds him back from being an A.

Brodie has been great and outside of a few errors expected from a young guy he is progressing really well. Looks solid in the top 4 even playing with a guy like Wideman which can't be easy.

Oh Moon you lovable scamp! I agree with most of your grades but not all.

Wideman- A
Bouwmeester- A
Brodie- B+ ( I think hes been good, but i was expecting a bit more offense, but that seems to be coming)
Gio - D
Smith- C
Butler- D
Sarich- C

I would seriously look at moving Gio a team like Detroit would overpay at this point I think. I dont think hes been good the last couple of seasons. Though maybe he's whats made Bouwmeester look good. If we get end up looking like we wont make the playoffs I would be dealing gio for sure.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by moon

Oh I know what number Wideman is. Easy to see him sticking out as clueless in the defensive zone.

But everyone is free to have their own opinions on how guys play.

Playing 25 mins a night, only having 4 giveaways, leading the team in blocked shots leads me to think he may have a clue in his own zone.

In 11 games he has been on the ice for 7 even strength goals, and 3 PP goals against. 10 total GA. 4 giveaways, 7 takeaways.

Bouwmeester has been on for 14 ES, 9 PP against. 23 total GA. 12 giveaways. 1 takeaway.

Giordano 15 ES, 5 PP against. 20 total GA. 11 giveaways. 12 takeaways.

I'm obviously not going to change your mind on this one, like you said everyone is free to have their own opinions on how guys play no matter how wrong or right they may be.

Seriously, if Wideman is playing currently playing clueless defense for the Flames then I cannot wait to see how he plays if and when he does get a clue.

[Bertuzzied]

hahhaa. i can't believe you guys fell for his trap! You have all been mooned in this thread.

[Itse]

This thread should have waited until a quarter of the season had passed. You know, one more game

But here goes anyway.

Wideman A: Great in the offensive zone, good in the defensive zone. Doesn't take nights off.
Brodie A-: Overall good, but with rookie lapses at times. Admittedly Wideman propably makes him look "better than he is", but I think he's maybe even a little undervalued as a part of that pairing for the lack of that big gun and on-ice leadership that Wideman shows. And I don't really think you can really look better than you are. Wideman is helping him reach his potential, but it's still him doing the playing.
Bouwmeester B+: Inconsistently good offensively. Defensively his 1 takeaways is pretty telling how he still puts way too little pressure on the opposition in general. Still gets outmuscled by players a head shorter than he is way too often. Outside of that he's been playing very well.
Giordano B-: Not as bad IMO as most people seem to think. Plays against tough opponents and leads the team in takeaways by a fair margin. (12 to Glencrosses 8. Leads in giveaways too, with Bouwmeester.) Never the most consistent guy, and has admittedly struggled more than previously.
Smith C+ Nothing special either way, but brings his best game every night, which is good for my nerves.
Butler D: At times kinda good, but at the next shift very very bad. Looks way better with Smith than Sarich though, IMO.
Sarich F: Still throws some good hits, but doesn't win enough battles to matter anymore and just can't keep up with the game at all. Never should have re-signed him, and I'd rather he doesn't play at all.

[Flame Man12]

Bouwmeester- A
Brodie - B
Butler - D
Gio- C-
Smyth- B-
Sarich- C
Wideman B+

[Erick Estrada]

Pretty high grades from most considering the defense as a group has been anywhere from good to terrible.

Wideman: A-
Bouwmeester: B
Brodie: B
Butler: C+
Sarich: C
Giordano: C
Smith: C

I don't see any defenseman that have been individually outright terrible but but outside of Wideman I wouldn't call any of them outstanding. Boumeester is finally earning his money and Brodie has been the most improved but he's still work in progress. Only real disappointment has been Giordano who is still struggling. Hopefully he can get his game together this season.

[Machiavelli]

Completely agree with Estrada's grades with the exception of Bouwmeester, who I'd give a B-.

[killer_carlson]

I feel vindicated by Butler's continued poor performance even with sheltered minutes.

I took a lot of heat last year for calling him out repeatedly bit now he has shown himself to be th 6th or 7 th dman that i think he is.

I called it in training camp that he may drop out of the top 6 to smith, and it is close to happ ening.

That aside, i think we will see a healthy dose of Anton to increase his trade value over the next few weks

[Captain_Obvious]

Moon doesn't like Wideman and crapped all over him and the Flames when he was signed.

The guy has been lights out for us this year according to both his stats and universal opinion and so Moon inexplicably gives him a poor mark for his play this season and cites his past dislike for him when questioned. (Bravo).

Sounds like a perfect example of someone being negative and then stubbornly maintaining that opinion in the interest of not wanting to appear wrong. Something Moon constantly says he doesn't understand in other contexts and sees no examples of around here.

[Caged Great]

Bouwmeester - B+ --> The reason for the B+ was his absolutely dreadful first couple games. After that he's been an A+. Florida Jay-Bo is here. Hopefully he doesn't disappear again.

Giordano - C- --> He's been generally okay. A definite upgrade on Butler in the first pairing, but not a first pairing D-man. His decision making has been poor and he seems to get flustered rather easily. Add in slow skating and mediocre positioning and it's not been a good start for Gio. He hasn't been the same since last year's injury.

Wideman - A+ ---> What can you say. He's been the best offseason acquisition in recent memory. Solid defending, and a ton of offense. There is literally nothing that you can complain about. Better than advertised.

Brodie - A+ ---> He's developing quickly into a number one D-man. He reminds me a lot of Dan Boyle. The only thing he's lacking thus far is points on the board. He has good instincts jumping in the play.

Sarich - D ---> He's okay. Slow and solid. Nothing spectacular. Not bad. Just there. If we had a better option we'd go with it.

Butler - D- ---> He's made exactly three impressive plays thus far this season. Yeah.... even Steve Begin has more than that.

Smith - C- ---> He's been just okay. Better than Sarich and Butler but still is a 6/7th D-man. I can't wait for Wotherspoon Sieloff Ramage Breen or whomever else to develop so we have a better group of 3rd pairing guys.

[Karl]

Jay Bouwmeester: B+

Mark Giordano: C-

Dennis Wideman: A+

T.J. Brodie: A-

Cory Sarich: D

Chris Butler: D

Derek Smith: C-

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Bouwmeester - B+ --> The reason for the B+ was his absolutely dreadful first couple games. After that he's been an A+. Florida Jay-Bo is here.

This.

[TurnedTheCorner]

I'd say we have the 11th best set of defencemen in the West.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I feel vindicated by Butler's continued poor performance even with sheltered minutes.

I took a lot of heat last year for calling him out repeatedly bit now he has shown himself to be th 6th or 7 th dman that i think he is.

I called it in training camp that he may drop out of the top 6 to smith, and it is close to happ ening.

That aside, i think we will see a healthy dose of Anton to increase his trade value over the next few weks

Really? I don't think you are vindicated at all and more trying to push your opinion as fact. IMO he's been by far the best of the 5+ defenders and IMO could possibly replace Giordano as the 4th defenseman. Much better than Sarich or Smith. I think like Moon you have already made up your mind on him and outside of winning a Norris nothing is going to change your opinion of him. He's a good skater and positionally sound. He's a little weak along the boards and coughs up the puck on occasion but most of the time he quietly goes about his business. Couldn't ask for a better depth defenseman IMO.

[FlamesAddiction]

Bouwmeester is playing like he did back in Florida by sneaking into the play more often. I think it's a combination of coaching, as wells as having some pressure off him. At any rate, I agree with any rating in the Bs.

I am very impressed with Wideman, but I was thinking from the beginning that people were underrating his defensive game. He might not be the best positionally, but he has never been afraid to hit and block shots.

[edn88]

Brodie: B great offensive guy but still making mistakes
Wideman: A+ he is our stud d-man
Gio: C maybe struggling with new system,
Bow: A- way better in this new system
Butler: C also struggling with new system
Sarich: C still a physical presence
Smith: C- made some mistakes early in the season

I think we could use an another B+ d-man - Maybe Babchuk will come back a new man under Hartley

[neo45]

You guys are giving out A+ to Wideman like it's candy on Halloween. By your criteria what is an A+? Could he possibly be doing better than he is? Is he a Norris candidate in your eyes? The scale doesn't go to A+++++

I think he has been really good, but he has always been pretty good. It's not like this guy came out of nowhere and started putting up points, I mean he was on the All Star team last year.

[Zevo]