Irving, level of progress at 24?

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by 868904

Did anyone catch Brent Krahn's interview pre-game? He made some good observations about Irving.

Said that Irving has the skill and quickness to be good NHL goalie, but thought that he's a bit too focused and intense right now. He thinks Irving is moving too fast and over reacting a bit and if he can calm down a bit, he'll be much better for it.

I guess that is a positive, better to have a goalie who is faster than the play so you can try and calm and slow him down, then a goalie who is too slow.

Thats my number one complaint about him from the start. Way too nervous.

[dammage79]

Hopefully Irving gets close to 20 starts this year. that will be the measuring stick on his talent that I will use. He simply has not had enough time on Ice at this Level to get fully climatized to this level of hockey. And he has to get the time to show he can be here. Cant give up on a 24 year old goalie just yet.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And Irving was 3rd on the list of Abbotsford goaltenders. Works both ways.

BTW...how the hell does that happen? Abbotsford is the freaking development team. They are there for one reason only..to develop players for the Calgary Flames. Up until a week ago the only young goalie prospect that the Flames had a vested interest in was Irving.

If he was struggling...find a way to help him solve his problems. That is their job down there as opposed to letting him rot, at the expense of winning.

So ass backwards.

Just maybe that is the biggest reason why he is not the more polished and confident player he should be.

In saying that..I would still give him more opportunities to start while Kipper is out. Let's see if he can develop further and continue to get some wins.

[Envitro]

I am not very high on him as a potential NHL starter. Yes, he still has potential but his game has some serious deficiencies. As a goalie myself I tend to be self-critical and therefore overly analytical of NHL goaltenders.

Here's my take:
1. He over-commits on shots and ends up being out of position by about 10-15%, leaving too much net to shoot at positionally speaking. However, a lot of times his foot-speed, reflexes, and general athleticism take over and allow him to somewhat recover
2. He seems too jittery and over-energetic. Maybe it's nerves but it's also immaturity in the position. I know in the past many goaltending coaches/theorists have advocated the principle of "energy conservation" (i.e. move the least amount to be in the perfect spot therefore conserving energy and reduce muscle fatigue for later in the game when you will need it the most)
It could be that he has an abundance of energy due to his age/stamina/fitness/genetics or whatever, but solving this issue would most likely solve the issue of over-comitting on shots as mentioned in point #1
3. He has very good hand-eye and his glove hand is strong. He has also made a lot of very nice saves with his blocker. One downside is his rebound control and a lot of shots end up sitting in prime, high-percentage areas such as the slot. He needs to be better at getting rebounds to go to the corners or towards his d-men (I know, not always possible but when possible make the play)

5. On breakaways/Shootouts he commits too early and bites on the first fake. Yeah, just needs more experience/practice to get that out of his system. Nothing too mind-blowing but just a matter of getting that part out of his game. Kipper got better in SO's so why can't he?

There are a bunch more but I think my biggest point to make is that he has loads of natural talent and potential, but just needs more time to mature. He deserves the opportunity that he has in front of him.

We have been very spoiled with Kipper. He has been a very calm, well-demeanored goalie that is smart, extremely athletic and has a certain body language to his game. It's unfair to compare Leland to one of the best that has ever played the position (not in Calgary but anywhere).

He just has to get more solid. If he fixes #1 & 2 he will be just fine.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by 868904

Did anyone catch Brent Krahn's interview pre-game? He made some good observations about Irving.

Said that Irving has the skill and quickness to be good NHL goalie, but thought that he's a bit too focused and intense right now. He thinks Irving is moving too fast and over reacting a bit and if he can calm down a bit, he'll be much better for it.

I guess that is a positive, better to have a goalie who is faster than the play so you can try and calm and slow him down, then a goalie who is too slow.

Interesting -- I've heard his struggles at the AHL level were partly due to the game not being as fast, and that he actually performs better playing at "NHL" speed. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but Krahn's comments (especially has a former goalie) would seem to confirm that to some extent.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by 868904

Did anyone catch Brent Krahn's interview pre-game? He made some good observations about Irving.

Said that Irving has the skill and quickness to be good NHL goalie, but thought that he's a bit too focused and intense right now. He thinks Irving is moving too fast and over reacting a bit and if he can calm down a bit, he'll be much better for it.

I guess that is a positive, better to have a goalie who is faster than the play so you can try and calm and slow him down, then a goalie who is too slow.

I think he makes a very valid point and I agree with it (though I am no goalie expert).

He hasn't been great by any stretch of the imagination, but I keep reminding myself that he hasn't played much over the past 12 months and needs time between the pipes.

I also keep reminding myself of how we normally assess rookie skaters - typically the stats aren't there at first but we look for signs of things to build on and we look at the stats to gradually improve.

Look at Cervenka for example (very small sample size, but) first 4 games, 1 pt, next 4 games, 4 pts.

I am trying hard to be patient, and I am rooting for him - I really want him to succeed.

[shermanator]

Has Irving been great? Not particularly, but I've seen him make more key saves at the right times than Kipper has this year.

I haven't seen it brought up in the thread yet, but Irving made a gigantic save last night when the game was 1-0, robbing Jagr on a point blank chance. Flames go back down the ice and score to make it 2-0. Dallas' 3rd goal was soft, but don't forget that Cervenka passed him the puck when he wasn't expecting it.

[bax]

Brent Krahn? Anyone care to fill me in what he's up to these days? His wiki doesn't say much

[dammage79]

Irving has had a terrible five hole so far. Wonder if its his pads, they dont look right for him. Havent seen a goalie struggle to snap it shut like he has in a long time.

His latteral movement too is very suspect. Like he is working too hard to actually do the move.

Strong Blocker side though, and aside from his blunder last night, his stick handling has been top notch.

His glove side would be much better if he cut down some of the angles he plays. Noting that his angles are also very unorthodox even when he is in the right position. Again, hopefully nothing more starts cannot cure. Malarchuk seems very high on the guy so I guess we will see where this goes.

[troutman]

In the MIN game he was excellent at absorbing the shots into his mid-section. No rebounds.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by troutman

In the MIN game he was excellent at absorbing the shots into his mid-section. No rebounds.

he has been fine handling pucks mid-level, but pretty bad at pad level.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by troutman

In the MIN game he was excellent at absorbing the shots into his mid-section. No rebounds.

He was great!

The funniest thing was in the GT thread right before the shootout though. You had people saying "he's great in the shootout!" and then gives us one of the worst shootout performances to date! and that is saying alot when we have seen Kipper over the years.

[Envitro]

I agree with Krahn's comments. I didn't hear what he said but I know the effect personally.

I've played on a fairly fast team in a good-level rec league and I can tell you when I sub in on a lower level team playing against slower opponents and weaker shots my timing is all off and I struggle for half the game getting adjusted to it. It's a pain in the ass....

[t0rrent98]

Where's this pregame video of Krahn's comments. I'd like to hear it.

[hixxes]

I agree with Timbit (EE also went there). There is something seriously wrong when your top goalie prospect is sat in favour of an unsigned minor leaguer (or two this season).

Hopefully more games for Irving will see him calm down and gain more confidence.

[EVERLAST]

Confidence goes a long way at 24......if the entire fan base was made up of Calgarypuckers he'd have shot himself already.

filling in for Kipper is no small feat for any goalie .....Irving is just another goalie in a long list of recent goalies who've failed to reach the lofty expectations set upon him.

A few more starts and his confidence levels will rise which in turn will help him settle down, control rebounds , deflect shots and become more of a Velcro goalie.

he'll be fine but whose to say he will get that opportunity....nobody else has.

[Stay Golden]

Irving shows some good signs but overall he is just average, stops some pucks. Has some bad angles, sometimes sits back too far in the net. Other times is slow getting across with shots coming out off the boards on the other sides. He has been guilty of that a number of times but the opposition has fanned. Irving seems real jittery at times like unsure of himself maybe.

Nothing special, will Irving get better with more games under his belt im sure he will but he is limited in how good he can be and will reside in the NHL or AHL as a backup.
Its no slam on the kid he is what he is.

There is nothing that wows me about Irving. Nothing that says man am i every glad Sutter picked him in the first round.
Just save some pucks, hopefully we win more than lose and Kipper can't come back soon enough regardless which backup is our temp starter.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by hixxes

I agree with Timbit (EE also went there). There is something seriously wrong when your top goalie prospect is sat in favour of an unsigned minor leaguer (or two this season).

Hopefully more games for Irving will see him calm down and gain more confidence.

Sure, I can understand that...

but what effect does a shaky goalie have on a team? I am sure the other prospects wouldn't be so relaxed out there and able to try things they normally don't do (as part of development) if they feel their one mistake will cost the team the win.

I find that most of the people that complain about Irving being 'mismanaged' on the Heat or having his development impaired don't follow the Heat AT ALL.

Flames set him up with a goalie coach. Flames made him the starter in Abby every year. Every year (except one) Irving gets bumped down from career AHL goalies.

Flames are getting the wins right now in spite of Irving I think. Last night, Dallas should have been out of it. Why did they get some life? Irving lets a bad one in, or at least doesn't make the key save at the key moment, and then proceeds to be shaky the rest of the way. Dallas figured out that all you need to do is shoot it on net, and go to the net for the rebound (huge rebounds).

Irving isn't 'terrible'... but Irving just can't seem to put it together either. What you see is what you get - and there hasn't been ANY mismanagement going on. Follow the Heat!

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by shermanator

Has Irving been great? Not particularly, but I've seen him make more key saves at the right times than Kipper has this year.

I haven't seen it brought up in the thread yet, but Irving made a gigantic save last night when the game was 1-0, robbing Jagr on a point blank chance. Flames go back down the ice and score to make it 2-0. Dallas' 3rd goal was soft, but don't forget that Cervenka passed him the puck when he wasn't expecting it.

He's not a stick of wood back there... he makes some saves. Just not enough of them. Teams are going to get chances. The goalie needs to be able to stop the majority of them.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by timbit

BTW...how the hell does that happen? Abbotsford is the freaking development team. They are there for one reason only..to develop players for the Calgary Flames. Up until a week ago the only young goalie prospect that the Flames had a vested interest in was Irving.

If he was struggling...find a way to help him solve his problems. That is their job down there as opposed to letting him rot, at the expense of winning.

So ass backwards.

Just maybe that is the biggest reason why he is not the more polished and confident player he should be.

In saying that..I would still give him more opportunities to start while Kipper is out. Let's see if he can develop further and continue to get some wins.

Blame Ward for that not the Flames in general. He seems to be quick to bury players that struggle. It sure looks on the surface that player developement in Abbotsford may be taking a back seat to icing a competitive AHL team. Maybe that's the Flames commitment to giving the fans a reason to show up but you tend to wonder if Ward is more interested in getting a shot in the NHL to which I can't fault him on a personal level. He sure loves to ride the career AHL players that the Flames have picked up over the years and the stifling defensive play may result in winning games but the team's offensive prospects have all seen their numbers plummet from junion wich happens but it seems to be happening to all of the forwards.

As for putting Irving behind two career AHLers that's a head scratcher for me as I'm not clear how the Flames benefitted at all by this. In fact this probably has hurt Irving's confidence and developement and some of the nervous play may be a byproduct of not being shown any patience in Abbotsford.

To me it's pretty clear the Flames need to make a decision this offseason on how they want to handle their developemental team. If the pressure of the Canucks wanting that market for their team is so great that they are putting too much emphasis on icing a competitive team maybe it's time to cut bait and find a new city for the team. Maybe they need to evaluate how Ward is handling their young players and look for a coach that is more concerned with professional developement than his personal agenda. Either way something has to give because what's happening in Abbotsford is not good from a Flames point of view unless as guys like Kolanos and Street aren't the answer to any of the Flames questions.