Irving, level of progress at 24?

[DropIt]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Basically, he's pretty bad, and this team won't be scoring 7 goals a night to make up for it every night.

Thats the only time Irving has had anywhere close to 7 goals on his side and he still has a winning record, so your statement doesnt really hold much water

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by kirant

Here's my spoilered breakdown of goalies who played above 40 games last year (1A goaltender or higher, effectively. Injuries were not considered):
At 24, was a starter (10): Theodore, Luongo, Brodeur, Lehtonen, Lundqvist, Price, Fleury, Pavelec, Ward, Khabibulin
At 24, was a backup/journeyman starter (11): Miller, Varlamov, Bryzgalov, Thomas, Anderson, Smith, Quick, Vokoun, Halak, S. Mason, Gustavsson

Varlamov played in 53 games last season as a 23 year old and started most of the games for Colorado this season. I think it's safe to say he is a starter.

[FlamesAddiction]

My feelings on Irving are that he is slightly behind where we should have hoped he would be at 24 and being a 1st round pick. I was really hoping at this point he would be a legitimate back-up that would push a 36 year old Kiprusoff for starts and not just get them because of injury or a planned rotation. I wasn't expecting him to be a starter.

Skillwise, I think Irving is at the NHL level in some aspects. He is fast and athletic. In other aspects, he is lagging. Maybe the only way to get him there is by giving him experience though. You can only teach a player so much before they have to learn by doing, and if you keep a player in the AHL for too long, then you end up developing an AHL player. As frustrating as it can be, I think it might be necessary to let him sink or swim.

I will say this as well, Irving is better than McElhinney ever was, and McElhinney was a fan favourite for some reason. It just goes to show you how draft position can influence expectations.

[PeteMoss]

If Irving was on the Oilers or Canucks we'd be laughing at them for having to play him.

All of the non-Flames fans I've talked to today who saw the game last night on TSN are telling me how bad he looked.

He's a first round pick and a relatively young guy so Flames fans are optimistic but I really doubt anyone will make a move on Irving if he goes on waivers again when Kipper comes back.

EDIT: I should add that the Flames org is at fault for some his lack of development. I know the other goalies outplayed him on the Heat but the goal should be to develop guys who are under contract.

[killer_carlson]

Look, he was fighting the puck but still managed to win. 7 goals sure help, but he made the big saves when he had to. Id rather he ight the puck in a blowout than in a close game.

When was the last time we had a backup get us points in 3 out of 4 starts?

He knows the pressure is on and let's wait and see how he responds. Im not displeased and hope he continues putting points up for us.

Start him next ame and take it game by game.

[moon]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

If Irving was on the Oilers or Canucks we'd be laughing at them for having to play him.

We laugh at the Oilers for playing Khabibulin right now and laughed at the Canucks when they played guys like Sanford as their back-up as well.

So it appears that as he should Irving is lumped in with the other back-up goalies around the league.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

If Irving was on the Oilers or Canucks we'd be laughing at them for having to play him.

All of the non-Flames fans I've talked to today who saw the game last night on TSN are telling me how bad he looked.

He's a first round pick and a relatively young guy so Flames fans are optimistic but I really doubt anyone will make a move on Irving if he goes on waivers again when Kipper comes back.

EDIT: I should add that the Flames org is at fault for some his lack of development. I know the other goalies outplayed him on the Heat but the goal should be to develop guys who are under contract.

How do you know it will be Irving on waivers? I am not saying he is a great goaltender, but posters that think MacDonald is the real deal as a backup better lower their expectations.

[madmike]

I don't know - he's about where he should be at given that he hasn't played a ton the last two seasons and has barely any NHL experience. I think he's done well enough to get more starts.

Ultimately though he could be in tough against someone like Ramo and/or Ortio next year and Brossoit/Gillies down the road.

Kiprusoff was too good for too long and I think that has hurt Irving's development.

[bluloc]

Doubt he'll ever be a number 1 but looks like a capable back up.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

How do you know it will be Irving on waivers? I am not saying he is a great goaltender, but posters that think MacDonald is the real deal as a backup better lower their expectations.

Whats that?

Of course he is a real back up....thats what he has done for years now. Is he a real deal starter? No. Backup? (and pretty good one at that) yes.

That doesn't mean he will come in and light it up, but chances are pretty good he is much better than Irving at this point, based solely on his experience.

[t0rrent98]

Besides MacDonald coming into the picture, I think Irving so far is the best backup goaltender to actually play as well as he could each and every night and give the team a chance to win every night in the past couple years after the 04 run.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by transplant99

That doesn't mean he will come in and light it up, but chances are pretty good he is much better than Irving at this point, based solely on his experience.

Much better than Irving is kind of implying that he's going to steal games and that's probably a stretch. Possible that he's better? Absolutely. He's more seasoned and may anticipate better. Possible that he's no better or worse? Given that he's bounced around with teams always feeling he's not the solution as backup I would have to say there's a good chance MacDonald is no better or worse than Irving.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Look, he was fighting the puck but still managed to win. 7 goals sure help, but he made the big saves when he had to. Id rather he ight the puck in a blowout than in a close game.

When was the last time we had a backup get us points in 3 out of 4 starts?

He knows the pressure is on and let's wait and see how he responds. Im not displeased and hope he continues putting points up for us.

Start him next ame and take it game by game.

That might have to do with the play of the team in front of him. I would suggest we have wins in spite of our goaltending this year.

[Red]

Originally Posted by saillias

That might have to do with the play of the team in front of him. I would suggest we have wins in spite of our goaltending this year.

Exactly. They won despite of Irving's poor play.

In his two wins Irving looked worse than the two losses. He actually played well vs Minny. The shootout was a whole other story.
Looks like people forgot how bad he was in Columbus.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Whats that?

Of course he is a real back up....thats what he has done for years now. Is he a real deal starter? No. Backup? (and pretty good one at that) yes.

That doesn't mean he will come in and light it up, but chances are pretty good he is much better than Irving at this point, based solely on his experience.

If he was the real deal he would not bounce around from team to team. I think he's 4th on the red wings list of goaltenders.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Much better than Irving is kind of implying that he's going to steal games and that's probably a stretch. Possible that he's better? Absolutely. He's more seasoned and may anticipate better. Possible that he's no better or worse? Given that he's bounced around with teams always feeling he's not the solution as backup I would have to say there's a good chance MacDonald is no better or worse than Irving.

No it isnt...its implying that he wont be giving up so many weak goals..hopefully.

Like I said, irving looks uncomfortable with the speed of the NHL game which has him either pushing off too hard to move laterally which then sees him sliding right out of position or sitting far to deep in his net. These are things that can be worked out, but this team needs better goaltending right now. Its ony a couple more weeks before 34 gets back anyhow, so either way its not a big deal except for the back to backs looming once March starts. By then either Macdonald or Irving will have established themselves as the backup...so there is nothing to lose.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

If he was the real deal he would not bounce around from team to team. I think he's 4th on the red wings list of goaltenders.

And Irving was 3rd on the list of Abbotsford goaltenders. Works both ways.

[868904]

Did anyone catch Brent Krahn's interview pre-game? He made some good observations about Irving.

Said that Irving has the skill and quickness to be good NHL goalie, but thought that he's a bit too focused and intense right now. He thinks Irving is moving too fast and over reacting a bit and if he can calm down a bit, he'll be much better for it.

I guess that is a positive, better to have a goalie who is faster than the play so you can try and calm and slow him down, then a goalie who is too slow.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by 868904

Did anyone catch Brent Krahn's interview pre-game? He made some good observations about Irving.

Said that Irving has the skill and quickness to be good NHL goalie, but thought that he's a bit too focused and intense right now. He thinks Irving is moving too fast and over reacting a bit and if he can calm down a bit, he'll be much better for it.

I guess that is a positive, better to have a goalie who is faster than the play so you can try and calm and slow him down, then a goalie who is too slow.

I think that Krahn has made a good observation there. It does seem that way.

[automaton 3]

Some good and some bad from Irving. The soft goals (in particular the 5 hole) have to be reduced. Hopefully something that can be worked on with Malarchuk.