Attawapiskat chief wants more cash? You don't say!

[Hemi-Cuda]

to be honest i think Canada should have taken the same steps as the US in this one area. cruel maybe, but far simpler

[Montana Moe]

What exactly did the U.S. do differently? This exact conversation is often held in the States.

[GP_Matt]

I think he is referring to the actions of Texas. Or Newfoundland if you want to look closer to home. Genocide might be the appropriate term. I think there is a bit of a debate amongst scholars.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Montana Moe

What exactly did the U.S. do differently? This exact conversation is often held in the States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_..._United_States

United States policy toward Native Americans had continued to evolve after the American Revolution. George Washington and Henry Knox believed that Native Americans were equals but that their society was inferior. Washington formulated a policy to encourage the "civilizing" process.[7] Washington had a six-point plan for civilization which included,

1. impartial justice toward Native Americans
2. regulated buying of Native American lands
3. promotion of commerce
4. promotion of experiments to civilize or improve Native American society
5. presidential authority to give presents
6. punishing those who violated Native American rights.[9]

of course the treatment of natives in the US became much more harsh than Washington intended. in the end it was brutal, but left the American Indians in better shape then their Canadian brethren IMO. they still have reservations in the states that make their own laws, but i don't think they're federally funded (i'm not positive on that one though) and a majority of the native population in the States lives outside of a reservation

one thing the Canadian gov't needs to do is stop throwing money at the issue hoping it will go away. that's not doing anyone in this country any good

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by opendoor

The end goal should be the removal of the Reserve system and a future where First Nations peoples can be self sufficient and prosperous on their own lands. But it's going to take many, many years to get there and a lot of work. Telling a race of people to "man up" isn't the solution.

So what is the solution? You've proposed something, now how can it be put into action? You've identified the problem, so what's the answer?

Please don't say time will solve everything.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

one thing the Canadian gov't needs to do is stop throwing money at the issue hoping it will go away. that's not doing anyone in this country any good

This is the main point I've been thinking on for a while. Right now, what can be done to change this situation for the better.

To answer that, you need a defined future goal. If you say that "Making the Reservation system work", that requires many different steps than "Integrate the Natives into the rest of Canadian society and do away with Reserves."

My personal thought would be to integrate them and do away with Reserves. Mishandled or not, the system hasn't worked pretty much since it's inception (that I can tell anyhow.)

To do that, ways need to be found to motivate the Natives and give them pride back. To make them want to stand on their own two feet and not have the government take care of them. They need a reason to stop accepting the handouts and start grabbing their bootstraps, as it were.

Is it easy? Are they going to want to? Probably not. To be quite honest, if the government was funding my life, I'd have a hard time finding the motivation to work, too. Why work when you don't have to, after all (it's called work, not fun, for a reason...)

The thing is...I don't have the answers. I don't know what (if anything) would make the Natives decide 'enough is enough' of this, and it's time to stop taking the handouts and start earning their way. If I had these answers, I'd be in office, not here on CP.

But it just seems logical to me that the Natives need a reason to get out there and integrate. And throwing money at the Reserves isn't going to make that happen at all.

And on the other end of the scale...who knows. Maybe all the Reserves need are Chiefs who aren't out just for themselves. Maybe, with the money the government is sending their way and proper management, the Reserve system could work very well. I don't know. It's been over 25 years since I was last near a Reserve.

But what does seem evident to me is that Natives need to find that pride in themselves as individuals and as a group again. And being constantly handed money is not the way to achieve that.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

So what is the solution? You've proposed something, now how can it be put into action? You've identified the problem, so what's the answer?

Please don't say time will solve everything.

It's hard to say. If there was a clear path to fixing everything this issue probably wouldn't exist. But there are a few general things that IMO need to be done.

Primarily, both sides need to create an environment where members of the band can have more control both politically and in terms of owning individual property. The corruption that exists in many communities needs to be addressed, and a democratization of the political process and ownership of assets would help. Reserves as they exist need to be phased out and the bands will need to take more responsibility for their assets how they're spent.

Some of what happened in Nisga'a Treaty could prove to be a good template. There is fee-simple land for band members which they can sell or take loans out against and also a removal of most tax exemptions. These are key steps that will eventually need to be taken. New Zealand's settlements with its Maori population could also provide some examples. They are a people with strong cultural identity without reserves.

The thing is, Canada has a firmly entrenched legal obligation to the First Nations people, so this cannot be a unilateral action and both sides need to take part in the process. It's going to take a very long time to transition from the current arrangement to what will eventually happen (likely a quasi-municipal government arrangement with tax exemptions removed) and it's going to be expensive in terms of money and land. But it's a problem that's not going to go away on its own so there needs to be real leadership from the various levels of government as well as the First Nations and their representatives in order to begin finding a solution.

[chemgear]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stor...rt-ruling.html

The Federal Court said today in a judicial review that it was "unreasonable" for the federal government to appoint a third-party manager in Attawapiskat last fall as the Ontario community was dealing with a housing crisis.

Attawapiskat First Nation had applied to the court for a judicial review of the decision by Aboriginal Affairs Minister John Duncan to have a third-party manager take control of the community's finances.

[mykalberta]

I have read it, what does it mean legally? If a court deems it "inappropriate" what does that mean?

[moncton golden flames]

i haven't read much of the thread, so maybe this has been discussed...

if typical wood framed housing is so bad on the reserve, why can't they go back to using their traditional methods of housing that have worked for thousands of years?

[Notorious Honey Badger]

its a tough situation because if we just do the right thing for all parities (rip up the treaties) canada will suffer huge backlash from the world community.

so instead we keep enabling the natives and allow them to kill themselves. its a tough spot to be in.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Notorious Honey Badger

keep enabling the natives and allow them to kill themselves.

Maybe this IS the plan?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Maybe this IS the plan?

Aboriginals are the fastest growing segment of Canada's population. They need to start carrying their weight in our economy, or their demographic growth will compound the problems with the current system.

[JohnnyNipshank]

Uh Oh! Looks like Theresa Spence partner may be in some trouble

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/04/0...heft-and-fraud

[CaptainCrunch]

There's no question that Spence is dirty, that tribe receives a ton of money with a pretty small population and that money vanishes into the hands of family members faster then I can heat up a hot pocket.

She single handedly hijacked the Idle no More movie with her miracle weight gain starvation diet where she would sneak off to a hotel room every night.

It was gag worthy when politicians were trying to score political points by sitting with her and giving her in the lime light.

She belongs in prison, but she managed to jury rig an election by the changing the rules.

I have a lot of sympathy for the people that live there, they're not getting screwed by whitey, they're getting screwed by one of their own.

[19Yzerman19]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

She belongs in prison, but she managed to jury rig an election by the changing the rules.

This has always bugged me when people said it because I just assumed it was a mistake - the correct term is "jerry-rigged", as far as I was concerned - and stuff like that is nails on a chalkboard (see, e.g., "for all intensive purposes").

So I just looked it up and apparently I am wrong. "Jerry-rigged" is a #######ization of "jerry-built" which has similar application by analogy but a different origin, whereas "jury-rigged" is a nautical term.

However, in this context, "jerry-built" (or its successor jerry-rigged, adopted in common parlance through use) is more appropriate in the instant circumstances as it denotes shoddy construction, whereas "jury rigged" actually refers to having to quickly construct something in an emergency that consequently isn't as well done as you'd ideally like it to be. In other words, if I'm in a bind and I "jury-rig" a rough and haphazard solution that nonetheless works, that's actually a positive thing. "Jerry-built" never means anything good.

[puckedoff]

I of learned something today. For all intensive purposes I may be a little smarter now then before.

[AcGold]

The natives of Canada were screwed just about as bad as the African- American slaves or the Pygmies. A few million isn't going to change generations of abuse and mistreatment.

It'll take education of the entire society and a change in policy to help them get it together. As it is now they will never get on the right track. People love to hate on them because of their ways now but they weren't like that without the influence of the Canadian government in tandom with the church while they tried to extinguish their culture

[Bobblehead]

nm

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by AcGold

The natives of Canada were screwed just about as bad as the African- American slaves or the Pygmies. A few million isn't going to change generations of abuse and mistreatment.

It'll take education of the entire society and a change in policy to help them get it together. As it is now they will never get on the right track. People love to hate on them because of their ways now but they weren't like that without the influence of the Canadian government in tandom with the church while they tried to extinguish their culture

Ok, lets talk about that. Because the situation in Attawapsikat has as much to do with prior abuses of the government of Canada and the church as my love life has to do with global warning.

There is no link at all whatsoever. It has nothing to do with hating on Natives it has nothing do do with discrimination or racial bias.

It has everything to do with a woman that is running a massive con game and ripping off her own people and being fine with them freezing or suffering as long as she can stuff the pockets of friends and family and herself.

It has to do with her doing a massive rip off of tax payer dollars and then using age old wounds to protect herself from any kind of prosecution.

And its not like its a exception to the rule, there are too many senior chiefs and administrators out there that are far worse then Italian Mafia leaders.

But to simply say oh its about past abuses and racial crime is simply doing the same thing that Spence is doing and preventing the problem from being looked at objectively and maybe fixed.

And the government is under the same kind of paralysis and its completely wrong.

These problems can't be solved by throwing money at it. The reserve system can't be solved by increasing the budget, the problem now is systematic and needs to be looked at objectively without bringing all of the other stuff in.