CBE to trim 200-250 jobs

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

CBE has the highest number of admin staff of any education board in Canada. Maybe they should start there.

Actually, having spoken with many of the soon-to-be-affected in a professional capacity in regards to money you're pretty bang on.

While some teachers will likely lose their jobs, the majority of this is 'fat cutting.' Eliminating a lot of the redundancy of the administration and support services.

When you see how much the receptionist or the librarian make, and you realize that these are jobs that 'back in the day' parents use to do as volunteers, you can understand how the costs have gotten so damned high, and, at some point, an effort to get it back under control has to be made.

[Yeah_Baby]

Nm

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by WilsonFourTwo

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...050801344.html

American specific, but it's reasonable to assume it's indicative of the Canadian experience as well.

It's from a biased source - the National Education Association, a teachers union who is "committed to advancing the cause of public education." Where is the source for their claim, and why are teachers leaving? Is it because they are underpaid as the article suggests? Not very convincing when the teacher they highlight is a mother of three - I know I pay $1,800 for childcare for my kids...if I had three kids it would be $2,400/month. No kidding she can't afford to work while paying for childcare - but that's not because she's an underpaid teacher, it's because she decided to have a family and now has to make sacrifices.

More importantly, however, is you can't compare teachers in the States to teachers in Canada. They are paid very well here. We really do need Canadian stats from a reliable source if you're going to try to convince me 50% of teachers quit after five years. Seriously, does anybody believe that? It would also be important to see why they quit. I'm sure it's not to find more holiday time somewhere else since that's impossible.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Is that your argument? My life is harder: waaaaaah. You're worst than an ATA shrill.

Edit: and it's not three months off. More like one and a half go two the summer.

?

It's two months in the summer, two weeks at Christmas and one week at Easter. Add in your stat holidays and it's three months.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'm really glad to see a thread on this. I was going to post one, but frankly just figured that no one else cared/noticed!

I don't even know where to begin with my frustration on this....but the CBE has some serious explaining to do IMO. How is it that other districts in the province (while certainly living the high life financially) are able to seemingly minimize these cuts where the CBE is continually cutting front-line staff? How is it that the administration budget seems set at the legislated maximum of 4% in the face of the budgetary cuts?

Yasa: I generally agree on the tech issue and the smart boards, but in a lot of these schools the parents fund-raise to buy those.

Pylon: I would greatly disagree that the public school system is winding down. Lots of kids hate school (and that has to be addressed, and there is actually progress being made on this issue), but the reality is that kids learn an immense amount of life and social skills in a classroom setting that they simply do not learn at home. Along with that there are opportunities and experiences that are available to kids in schools that are not available to children in a home setting, whether the internet is there or not.

I think it the government that has explaining to do not the school boards. My wife's district is cutting 40 staffing positions out of 361. Not all will be teachers but most will be as that is where the money saving comes from. Again we see a government that will spend 350 million on a new Museum yet let class sizes rocket out of control.

Everyone needs to phone their MLA and explain how unacceptable this is.

[flamingreen]

Originally Posted by Sliver

It's from a biased source - the National Education Association, a teachers union who is "committed to advancing the cause of public education." Where is the source for their claim, and why are teachers leaving? Is it because they are underpaid as the article suggests? Not very convincing when the teacher they highlight is a mother of three - I know I pay $1,800 for childcare for my kids...if I had three kids it would be $2,400/month. No kidding she can't afford to work while paying for childcare - but that's not because she's an underpaid teacher, it's because she decided to have a family and now has to make sacrifices.

More importantly, however, is you can't compare teachers in the States to teachers in Canada. They are paid very well here. We really do need Canadian stats from a reliable source if you're going to try to convince me 50% of teachers quit after five years. Seriously, does anybody believe that? It would also be important to see why they quit. I'm sure it's not to find more holiday time somewhere else since that's impossible.

After 5 years half of all teachers quit. The teacher's colleges talk about it, the province talks about it, the school boards talk about it, the education academics talk about it, the union talks about. You can say that you don't believe it but that doesn't mean it isn't a serious problem that is going on in the profession.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Sliver

?

It's two months in the summer, two weeks at Christmas and one week at Easter. Add in your stat holidays and it's three months.

Not one of you again. Go back to a previous thread several years ago, this was all hashed out then, people like you will never know what teaching is like unless you actually do it so there is no point in argueing with you about it.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Sliver

More importantly, however, is you can't compare teachers in the States to teachers in Canada. They are paid very well here. We really do need Canadian stats from a reliable source if you're going to try to convince me 50% of teachers quit after five years. Seriously, does anybody believe that? It would also be important to see why they quit. I'm sure it's not to find more holiday time somewhere else since that's impossible.

I wholeheartedly believe that a huge percentage (possibly up to 50%, I suppose) exit the profession very early on.

Heck, it took me 30 seconds to find reasonable references to the state of teacher retention within Alberta.

Read the first paragraph of this UofA student newspaper article. It suggests the Canadian experience may be close to 30%.

Or we could look at the Alberta Education's 2003 report from the Advisory Committee on Future Teacher Supply and Demand in Alberta.

"In estimating teacher supply, the model examined the number of teachers, the number of teachers of all ages leaving the profession, the number of new Alberta education graduates, and the number of teachers entering the profession from other provinces or countries or re-entering the profession. Key assumptions included that approximately 50 percent of new teachers are not in the profession after five years....."

Of course both of these sources are involved in education, and are therefore biased. We should try to dig up a Teacher Retention survey commissioned by Greenpeace, Virgin Airlines or the Vienna Board of Tourism.

[ma-skis.com]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Plus it's difficult to go back to university when you already have a mortgage, etc. I know people who have done that, but they typically come from wealthy families and can afford to not work for a couple years while they get re-educated.

I certainly plan to encourage my kids to be teachers. Sweetest gig ever.

It's funny, a lot of bad teachers stay in teaching for that same reason, they have a mortgage and can't afford to make a change.

Personally, I'm going to encourage my kids to go corporate for the 6 figure salaries, free business trips around the country, free cell phones, flexible times off, stock options 6 weeks off a year, more than double what a teacher makes for an extra 6 weeks a year, because we all know no corporate jobs give out ONLY 2 weeks.

Grass is always greener hey?

Originally Posted by Sliver

As if you didn't completely make that up. There is no way possible 50% of teachers quit after five years lol.

http://www2.education.ualberta.ca/st...eachornot.html

that's a US based stat, UK averages are similar, google it if you dno't believe me

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by flamingreen

After 5 years half of all teachers quit. The teacher's colleges talk about it, the province talks about it, the school boards talk about it, the education academics talk about it, the union talks about. You can say that you don't believe it but that doesn't mean it isn't a serious problem that is going on in the profession.

It's not that I don't believe it, but I am skeptical. Do you have an unbiased Canadian link, or am I just supposed to take your word for it? In this thread people on your side of the debate have ranged their guess from 30% - 50%, so I think it's reasonable for me to by suspect of it.

[Kybosh]

50% of teachers quit after the first five years because they get bored spending time alone while all their other friends have real jobs.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by ma-skis.com

It's funny, a lot of bad teachers stay in teaching for that same reason, they have a mortgage and can't afford to make a change.

Personally, I'm going to encourage my kids to go corporate for the 6 figure salaries, free business trips around the country, free cell phones, flexible times off, stock options 6 weeks off a year, more than double what a teacher makes for an extra 6 weeks a year, because we all know no corporate jobs give out ONLY 2 weeks.

Grass is always greener hey?

http://www2.education.ualberta.ca/st...eachornot.html

that's a US based stat, UK averages are similar, google it if you dno't believe me

Dude, that was the biggest strawman argument ever.

Also, that link was terrible.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Sliver

It's not that I don't believe it, but I am skeptical. Do you have an unbiased Canadian link, or am I just supposed to take your word for it? In this thread people on your side of the debate have ranged their guess from 30% - 50%, so I think it's reasonable for me to by suspect of it.

You're missing the OP's whole point.

Whether it's 30%, 50% or somewhere in between, retention rates amongst new teachers is incredibly poor. That doesn't usually happen with a "Sweet Gig".

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by WilsonFourTwo

I wholeheartedly believe that a huge percentage (possibly up to 50%, I suppose) exit the profession very early on.

Heck, it took me 30 seconds to find reasonable references to the state of teacher retention within Alberta.

Read the first paragraph of this UofA student newspaper article. It suggests the Canadian experience may be close to 30%.

Or we could look at the Alberta Education's 2003 report from the Advisory Committee on Future Teacher Supply and Demand in Alberta.

"In estimating teacher supply, the model examined the number of teachers, the number of teachers of all ages leaving the profession, the number of new Alberta education graduates, and the number of teachers entering the profession from other provinces or countries or re-entering the profession. Key assumptions included that approximately 50 percent of new teachers are not in the profession after five years....."

Of course both of these sources are involved in education, and are therefore biased. We should try to dig up a Teacher Retention survey commissioned by Greenpeace, Virgin Airlines or the Vienna Board of Tourism.

Look at the red part. How is this evidence? You have to be kidding me.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by WilsonFourTwo

You're missing the OP's whole point.

Whether it's 30%, 50% or somewhere in between, retention rates amongst new teachers is incredibly poor. That doesn't usually happen with a "Sweet Gig".

Or less. Let's get our facts then determine. Plus, we'll need to know why they leave.

[Sainters7]

...aaand I'm done with this thread. The usual crowd from the other thread like this a couple years back have now burst through the door. I would LOVE to see those bashing it do it for a whole year, just one year. I'm not saying its some impossibly hard job, but there's waaaay more to it than you know, believe me. I'm not exaggerating even a bit when I say between LP's, marking, IPP's, conversations with parents (which thanks to the internet, is now a daily thing), etc makes your average work day your first 3 years or so around 12+hrs.

Anyone who thinks that teachers just walk in the door and wing it literally have no idea what they're talking about.

/Sainters out, for the benefit of my own blood pressure.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Look at the red part. How is this evidence? You have to be kidding me.

Ah yes, the "It's not evidence until I say it is" argument. You really think that Alberta Education is basing policy decisions on anything other than fact and generally recognized/accepted information?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Not one of you again. Go back to a previous thread several years ago, this was all hashed out then, people like you will never know what teaching is like unless you actually do it so there is no point in argueing with you about it.

You're right, we did determine this in another thread. It was three months.

Here's the link to the CBE page.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by WilsonFourTwo

Ah yes, the "It's not evidence until I say it is" argument. You really think that Alberta Education is basing policy decisions on anything other than fact and generally recognized/accepted information?

An assumption isn't evidence. That's basic.

[Finny61]

I'm not a teacher so I do not know, but my understanding is that you get out of school and you join the pool of candidates. Do those retention numbers have anything to do with teachers wanting to secure permanent full time roles and not having success in doing so? What defines as "being in the profession"? Is it actually having a full-time role or being a substitute or just in the pool? I have had friends in the past growing up that went on to become classroom teachers and had to be subsitutes for a lengthy period of time before something came up for them. Maybe its damn hard to secure a permanent role because it is a sweet gig? I don't know, but I'd like to know if that has any bearing. If I was spending the first 3-5 years waiting on a full-time role year in and year out then I'm sure I would consider changing my career path.