CBE to trim 200-250 jobs

[albertGQ]

I heard they also get gold plated pensions.

Is this on the back of taxpayers or do they contribute a hefty sum every pay cheque?

[Sample00]

mussst ....nottt...parrtticipate....in....discussionnnnn. NOOOO!

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=80855

[Yasa]

I changed the title to reflect more of the truth (thanks Ken.) I think my overall frustration with it is due in part to one of my good friends on the road to being a teacher. Her parents are also teachers in the system so I hear a lot of positive, and a lot of negative things. I've heard teachers, good teachers, grief and complain about the CBE. When I was in highschool (I also went to Scarlett, Pylon,) our best gym teacher was fired because of budget cuts and he was the newest teacher. I know people don't have high views regarding gym teachers, but this guy was great. A lot of the students looked up to him, he never discriminated and always encouraged kids to participate. Small anecdotes, but it's where my bitter taste originates from.

I don't like the idea of new teachers being let go because CBE budgeted poorly. I realize now, that it likely won't be 200 teachers, but that doesn't make it much better.

Off topic
As for the Smartboards, I completely understand and agree that they're not unnecessary, but they're also not a be-all to learning. I know, and appreciate that many schools did fundraising to get them, but many schools didn't. The problem there lies with the fact that plenty of teachers don't use them. This is because the CBE provides little to no training on them, and not everyone is tech-savvy. In addition; the repair costs are unreal. Speakers would fail daily, projectors would fail, the SE-9 control (the part that enables the touch screen) constantly were fried, the pen trays would give out in a matter of weeks. New models are constantly released which would fix past mistakes and create new ones. Once it breaks, teachers give up on them. The height adjustable mobile smartboards were terrible, and until about 2 months ago had a problem where the mounting bracket that held the arm and projector was too weak and started to fall down. Not to mention, these projectors would become unaligned within days. Too much money for such a terrible product. I know all these details because I installed many of these smartboards.

Again, I agree they can be a great tool; but for what the schools and school board paid for them...they could have put that money for better things.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

I heard they also get gold plated pensions.

Is this on the back of taxpayers or do they contribute a hefty sum every pay cheque?

Last year, provincial gov't put in about $213million into their defined benefit pension fund. They're still massively underfunded though.

While I realize the plight of teachers, their DB pension takes away all my sympathy for them.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by CrusaderPi

They also get 2 weeks at Christmas, 7 weeks over summer, spring break and a "professional [s[]drinking[/s] development day every third week. So as crappy as "marking essays or tests or doing IPP's, report cards, parent teacher interviews and countless meetings" may be, the compensation is pretty damn good.

And by the way, this isn't Houston. No one is holding a gun to their head. If the 10 weeks off, benefits and salary aren't good enough they are welcome to find something better.

You forgot unit planning, lesson planning, Professional Growth Plans, coaching sports teams, leading clubs, coordinating yearbook etc etc.

But your point is still somewhat valid. I'm not going to respond to the PD Day comment because I think that is extremely contextual to the individual school and administrative setting.


Edit:

Re: SMARTBoards, They are a powerful tool. But they are just a tool. And most students today have an insanely high level of digital literacy. So that is the new reality we live in. But a lot of teachers don't use their SMARTBoard correctly. So it is just a really really expensive projector.


Edit 2:

I hate how older teachers can retire, collect a pension and still be on a sub list. How are new teachers supposed to get those positions out there if Mr. So and So is collecting his pension and subbing three times a week and curling on tuesdays and thursdays.

[bizaro86]

The problem isn't that teachers are underpaid, it's that they're all paid the same grid, and that some of them are exceptionally poor.

As in any profession, some people are good at it at and some people aren't. Unfortunately, the ATA makes it essentially impossible for school boards to get rid of poor performers. Bad teachers shuffle from school to school, leaving damaged students in their wake (see above).

I know a number of great teachers, and the fact that they have to cover for their co-workers mistakes makes them angry, and more likely to burn out.

As to the poster who said just get a better job, the problem is, many of the good and competent ones do, leaving the duds to stay and fill a space until they get their pension.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Edit 2:

I hate how older teachers can retire, collect a pension and still be on a sub list. How are new teachers supposed to get those positions out there if Mr. So and So is collecting his pension and subbing three times a week and curling on tuesdays and thursdays.

This is a major pet peeve of mine as well (and I'm not a teacher). It just doesn't seem right at all.

As for the issues with Teachers salaries.....I'm of the opinion that they should be amongst the best compensated public employees. I also happen to believe that they are, all things considered.

[MacGruber]

the demonetization of teachers lately in the US and now seemingly here is just sad.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by MacGruber

the demonetization of teachers lately in the US and now seemingly here is just sad.

Do you mean Demonization?

[ma-skis.com]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Edit 2:

I hate how older teachers can retire, collect a pension and still be on a sub list. How are new teachers supposed to get those positions out there if Mr. So and So is collecting his pension and subbing three times a week and curling on tuesdays and thursdays.

I believe that changed last year and retired teachers needed to have some unique skillsets like a class 1 drivers licence, trade certification etc. to continue subbing, my understanding is they had to reapply to get back on to the sub list.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by MacGruber

the demonetization of teachers lately in the US and now seemingly here is just sad.

Sarah Silverman


I feel positive Jesus would want rich people & big corps to pay more taxes than say, a schoolteacher #WWJD

[ma-skis.com]

Originally Posted by Deegee

No, they aren't. I know several teachers that seem to have lots of work to do after hours because they always wait until the bitter end to mark or plan anything. If they time managed better they wouldn't have the issue.

I know several teachers who don't wait till the bitter end and manage there time quite well and still don't have enough time because they are excellent teachers.

the question is do you pay teachers assuming they are all excellent teachers, or do you pay them assuming they are all poor teachers?

If we take the grid away, how do we establish a fair and quantifiable method of establishing a salary for individaul teachers?

Then are the best teachers equally accessible to everyone? How do we decide who gets the best teachers?

or is it based on a tuition system where the best teachers who make the most are at one school and parents need to pay in order to get these best and highest paid teachers since it wouldn't be fair if everyone didn't have access to the best teachers.

If it's a tuition system, what social groups are most likely able to have access to these teachers? And

which social groups actually need the best teachers the most?

I agree there are flaws in the system, but making it better is a very challenging ordeal. It's like govenerment, we all know it sucks, but how do you make it better? most of us just sit around saying it sucks with a bunch of ideas, but very little action.

[SebC]

Based on the fact that there is a shortage of teaching positions (and not of teachers), yes, teachers are overcompensated.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

You forgot unit planning, lesson planning, Professional Growth Plans, coaching sports teams, leading clubs, coordinating yearbook etc etc.

I don't know how you can say this nonsense in every teacher thread. Every job has requirements and responsibilities that go beyond the "day's work." What most jobs don't have are THREE MONTHS off per year to do that stuff in. Not to mention their day with students is really only like 6 hours long and they often have spares within that short day.

Have you even worked in the real world? There are seminars, business trips, late nights, weekend work, Blackberries, on-call responsibilities, etc. Being a teacher is a cake-walk compared to most corporate jobs and has the slackest schedule of any job, anywhere with very good pay - it's so good in fact they keep paying you for a few decades after you retire!

[ma-skis.com]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I don't know how you can say this nonsense in every teacher thread. Every job has requirements and responsibilities that go beyond the "day's work." What most jobs don't have are THREE MONTHS off per year to do that stuff in. Not to mention their day with students is really only like 6 hours long and they often have spares within that short day.

Have you even worked in the real world? There are seminars, business trips, late nights, weekend work, Blackberries, on-call responsibilities, etc. Being a teacher is a cake-walk compared to most corporate jobs and has the slackest schedule of any job, anywhere with very good pay - it's so good in fact they keep paying you for a few decades after you retire!

Maybe you should be a teacher if it's so cushy. Your real world job sounds awfully tough and teachers got it pretty easy with the 6 hoursa day, 3 months off a year and free cake.

Knowing all that, explain to me why after 5 years, 1/2 of new teachers have quit, can't be the free cake could it?

I get that everyone has a "valid" opinion on education since we all were in the system, but what you see as a student or what you see from that guy you know is radically different from what you see when you're actually doing it.

let me ask you this, do you ever have a few drinks when you go for your out of town meetings, kickback when they day is done? the teachers I know go out of town with a dozen kids in a hotel for an out of town basketball tournament watching hallways at midnight and making sure NOBODY is having a drink.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by ma-skis.com

Maybe you should be a teacher if it's so cushy. Your real world job sounds awfully tough and teachers got it pretty easy with the 6 hoursa day, 3 months off a year and free cake.

Unfortunately, I bought into the teacher/union spin machine during my university years that told me teachers are underpaid and overworked. When I was in the real world with my two weeks off a year and started working out what teachers actually earn per hour worked, it was really too late.

To be a teacher, it is ideal to start when you're young and fresh out of university to capitalize on the best possible pension with the earliest possible retirement. If I had gone back to get a Masters of Education when I was say 28, then graduated at 30, I would be putting off retirement too long. Plus it's difficult to go back to university when you already have a mortgage, etc. I know people who have done that, but they typically come from wealthy families and can afford to not work for a couple years while they get re-educated.

I certainly plan to encourage my kids to be teachers. Sweetest gig ever.

Originally Posted by ma-skis.com

Knowing all that, explain to me why after 5 years, 1/2 of new teachers have quit, can't be the free cake could it?

As if you didn't completely make that up. There is no way possible 50% of teachers quit after five years lol.

Originally Posted by ma-skis.com

I get that everyone has a "valid" opinion on education since we all were in the system, but what you see as a student or what you see from that guy you know is radically different from what you see when you're actually doing it.

let me ask you this, do you ever have a few drinks when you go for your out of town meetings, kickback when they day is done? the teachers I know go out of town with a dozen kids in a hotel for an out of town basketball tournament watching hallways at midnight and making sure NOBODY is having a drink.

I've seen teachers on field trips and it looks very stressful and difficult. I totally concede that - a very tough part of the job. The business trips I've been on have been way more fun than a field trip with a bunch of kids, and that's coming from a guy that hates business trips.

But, again, teachers have three months off a year. It way more than makes up for the three (ish?) days of field trips they take a year.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Sliver

As if you didn't completely make that up. There is no way possible 50% of teachers quit after five years lol.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...050801344.html

American specific, but it's reasonable to assume it's indicative of the Canadian experience as well.

[Jedi Ninja]

Teacher's Pay By Province

British Columbia (Vancouver Island) $72,242 2008 Vancouver Island North Payscale
Alberta (Calgary) $74,299 2007 Collective agreement - ATA
Saskatchewan $67,293 2007 Collective Agreement - STF
Manitoba (Winnipeg) $74,317 2008 Collective Bargaining - MTS
Ontario (Toronto) $75,688 2007 Collective Agreement - OSSTF
Quebec $46,341 2007 Collective Agreement - QPAT
New Brunswick $57,126 2008 None - negotiations under way.
Nova Scotia (Halifax) $67,277 2007 Collective Agreement - NSTU
P.E.I. $60,296 2008 PEITF Handbook
Newfoundland $61,899 2007 Collective Agreement -NLTA

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I don't know how you can say this nonsense in every teacher thread. Every job has requirements and responsibilities that go beyond the "day's work." What most jobs don't have are THREE MONTHS off per year to do that stuff in. Not to mention their day with students is really only like 6 hours long and they often have spares within that short day.

Have you even worked in the real world? There are seminars, business trips, late nights, weekend work, Blackberries, on-call responsibilities, etc. Being a teacher is a cake-walk compared to most corporate jobs and has the slackest schedule of any job, anywhere with very good pay - it's so good in fact they keep paying you for a few decades after you retire!

Is that your argument? My life is harder: waaaaaah. You're worst than an ATA shrill.

Edit: and it's not three months off. More like one and a half go two the summer.

[Yasa]

Sliver, you're assuming that time off is equal to stress free jobs. EMT's and paramedics typically work 6 months out of the year (if they're not working casual for other services). That's half a year off. It's also an extremely stressful job with a high burnout rate.

Teachers have to deal with kids from ages 5-18 for 9 months out of the year. 9 months to deal with students acting out, not listening, bullying, harrasment, drugs, puberty, etc.. Lots of parents are challenged dealing with their own kids, let alone 30+ new ones every year. On top of that, they have to be able to act as a role model to these kids on a daily basis.

The turn over rates for first year teachers is very high, and also high after 5 years. ma-skis isn't necessarily wrong, although I've heard the numbers after 5 years are more around 30-40%. My stats have come from principals and teachers that I've spoken to when I was doing the Smartboard installations. You don't have to believe it, and I don't expect you to as it's hard to take stats like that for face-value.

Yes, teachers get plenty of benefits and time off, but to assume that equals to a stress free and lovely job is just unfortunately being naive.

Edit: Spelled your name wrong, Sliver, my bad!