The Super Bowl is a Waste of Time

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

There are lots of valid reasons why the NFL is so big compared to the CFL and "hype" is most certainly one of them.

But this is a chicken/egg argument. It's not like the NFL started pumping out hype and people were so hypnotized by it that they stuck around. Those Orbitz drinks were hyped a bunch when they came out in the 90s. That doesn't change the fact that they sucked, and consequently they got pulled.

Also, it is important to distinguish between the Super Bowl and the NFL as a whole. I'm not denying the talent difference or discrediting it. I'm sure lots of hardcore NFL fans love it for the talent.

The Super Bowl doesn't get 163m viewers because of the talent. To suggest otherwise would be insane. The Super Bowl gets the viewership it does precisely because of two things: hype and gambling.

Again, this isn't much difference than people who never watch CFL games that get together for Grey Cup parties.

I like both leagues so I'm not going to suggest that hype is the only reason the NFL is the biggest sport in NA, but it sure as hell helps.

Again though, you can only have hype when a product lives up to it. Look at how big Major League Baseball was for the majority of the 20th century. MLB had an incredible hype-machine, but fans slowly gravitated away from it because the product didn't match it. Hell, even the NBA in the 80s and 90s had huge hype surrounding it that has since dwindled. Hype might get someone in the door, but it's not what keeps them interested.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Again though, you can only have hype when a product lives up to it. Look at how big Major League Baseball was for the majority of the 20th century. MLB had an incredible hype-machine, but fans slowly gravitated away from it because the product didn't match it. Hell, even the NBA in the 80s and 90s had huge hype surrounding it that has since dwindled. Hype might get someone in the door, but it's not what keeps them interested.

I don't disagree with most of what you said because frankly I don't think any of it contradicts anything in my post. I do slightly disagree with a few things in the last part though.

First, the NFL hype machine made the event of the SB bigger than the game and for years and years the SB games were duds. We're on a pretty good run of SBs right now though and that is good.

However, even if GB won 56-0 and it was a terrible game it probably would have set records anyway which supports the hype theory.

Second, and this builds on my first point, is that the hype the NFL has the ability to make the quality of the product irrelevant for some fans. I'm not saying the quality isn't usually there, but when it isn't the hype takes over and manages to cover up shortcomings in the NFL game.

I would also argue that neither MLB or NBA ever had the type of hype the NFL has. Fantasy leagues, betting etc.

MLB is as old as dirt and was an american institution and the product has gone down hill. I mean, really, who wants to sit for 4.5 hours while a guy fixes his glove and a pitcher steps off the mound 4 times before throwing a pitch.

NBA had its golden years with Bird/Magic/Jordan and now that they're gone the product is crap.

The NFL is at the point of the Toronto Maple Leafs. They could put chimps on the field and the hype would keep the NFL afloat for a long time. Maybe not forever, but quite a while.

Just look at the Pro-Bowl this year. Despite being bashed by every living person who was unfortunate to see it, the PB had record numbers for the last 14 years. 8 million americans tuned in to watch one of the worst displays of professional football in history. It was truly an embarrassment to competitive sports. And it managed to pull in record numbers. That is hype.

One thing that I want to make clear is that I'm not saying that hype is covering up a bad product. I think the NFL is fine. However, without the hype I don't think the league is nowhere near as big as it is today and I don't think that bubble is going to burst any time soon. NFL is the new top dog and I don't think it'll change for many, many years.

Personally, my only complaint is that the NFL is a little too slow. 45 second play clock needs to be cut to 20-30s. The CFL has such a faster pace because instead of 11 minutes of action in 3 hours you get maybe 20 minutes.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Personally, my only complaint is that the NFL is a little too slow. 45 second play clock needs to be cut to 20-30s. The CFL has such a faster pace because instead of 11 minutes of action in 3 hours you get maybe 20 minutes.

Yeah, I've heard this gripe before, but I think it's another instance of both things working well for their respective leagues. It's not the play-calling that takes time in the NFL. Guys usually break the huddle and get up to the line after about 15-20 seconds, but there are a lot more pre-snap adjustments and substitutions that sort of dictate the need for 40 seconds.

I agree with you that Super Bowl is mostly hype, but I don't think you can apply that to the rest of the games. I don't know a whole lot of people who will watch a blowout unless they're invested in it somehow.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

Outside of the rules, I love the atmosphere of a Grey Cup over Superbowl a 1000x more, and I follow the NFL much more then I do the CFL. I've gone to both events and even watching my favourite team the Colts in a championship, I still had a 100x more fun when the Grey Cup came to Calgary and the week leading up to it.

I went to the Grey Cup this year and one of the guys who came with us also went to last year's Super Bowl. He was saying the atmosphere was completely different than the SB (beyond just the weather). He was saying the Super Bowl has such a stuffy, corporate feel to it. Whereas at the Grey Cup its pretty much all of Canada coming together to get bundled up & git er done. I could see that. Grey Cup definitely seems more laid back.

[calgaryrocks]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I don't think the Super Bowl is a good indicator of hype. The NFL is obviously going to make a spectacle out of their championship game. Every sport does that. I agree that some of it is pretty over the top, but most people I know hate that part of it. However, everything else in the above paragraph could just as easily be applied to the Grey Cup.

Ok, I agree, but as others have mentioned the Grey Cup has a different feel to it, a better feel in my opinion. I was using the superbowl as an example of NFL hype, but you are right it is different in the regular season, although I don't think it's that different

Okay, but is gambling part of the hype or a by-product of the quality of the game? I like hockey, but I don't gamble on it because I'm not interested in watching games that the Flames aren't involved in. The NFL is very unique in that you have thousands, if not millions of people, who bet on games just so they have an excuse to watch them. People don't bet on the CFL because they don't want to watch the games.

maybe a by-product of the game, but you could look at it the other way that the only way people get interested in watching the games is by putting money on them. The gambling creates interest where there wouldn't have been, which of coursecould be true of any league. of course how that gambling starts could be caused by various things, but hype is one of those factors.

The nationalist mantra from CFL fans is unbearable. Which do you watch more, Canadian movies or American movies?

haha yea i know sometimes it seems rediculous, I just find its easier to watch a sport when I can go see it, or associate a team with civic/national pride. the only reason I started cheering for the Flames in the late 90s was because I was raised in Calgary, cheering for the flames got me interested more in hockey. it certainly wasn't the quality of the game or how good the Flames were.
I watch more american movies, because they are better and more hyped by my friends and the media. but I can still go see the movie in Calgary, and I'm not investing my emotions and cheering for a movie. Its purely a sports minded nationalism/civicism. do you cheer for Canada at the olympics? but I bet you still watch american shows or movies over canadian ones. sport is different. I think as Canadians we sometimes feel like we are being overly influenced by the Americans and try and grab onto whats Canadian, to be different then them. As a CFL fan, I see Canadians mock our game for various reasons, some legitimate, some not really legitimate. Putting down people who watch the CFL or saying they wish the league would stop existing (yep, some Canadians say that). refusing to accept any good parts of the sport, loving the NFL but refusing to even watch the CFL. its football, and I would think its easier to get behind a team from where you live, representing you (not really, but you get the idea). I guess dealing with this close mindedness of some people (not you rube, we've discussed this before!) and supposed superiority of people who watch NFL over people who watch CFL, we get defensive and stick up for what we enjoy.
sorry for the rant

I watch European soccer. I even have a team. How did those two Czech dudes form a strong enough connection with the Flames to want to travel all the way to Calgary to see a game? People will form their own connections if the product on the field entices them to do so. I don't think anybody is an NFL fan just because FOX has a dancing robot during their broadcasts.

Good on you rube, and you are right, those guys made a connection with the Flames from the other side of the world, thats really cool. I would have a difficult time doing that, of course I don't know because I haven't lived in Europe. no people aren't a fan of the NFL just because of a dancing robot, but people are a fan of the NFL because its the popular thing to do.

I haven't noticed this, but it's pretty irrelevant. Advertisers pay for certain slots. They generally broadcast their best spots in the timeslots they think will have the most viewers.

it may be irrelevant, but I'm thinking more of when I have been watching TSN. TSN puts spots on to advertise its shows, often during CFL games they show NFL spots, and you're right, they get the most viewers at those times that would be interested in watching football. I meant more the quality of the ads

Why is this so egregious? I should go out and pay to sit through hours of what I consider to be crappy football, just because they're in the same city as me?

I disagree with crappy, its not like you are sitting through a cricket match or something, it is football. unless you think football is just better on tv (many think that), it is a long time to sit in a stadium for 11 or 20 minutes of action. of course NFL games take on average a half hour longer, so you are sitting longer. It is just that it is easier to go see your teams games if you are a 20 minute drive from seeing them. no you don't have to go see a product you don't like, I mean more from the standpoint of making a connection with a team. but watching on tv, It is easy to watch games from anywhere. of course this might be part of why attendance is dropping in the NFL, cheaper HD tvs and better broadcasting make it a better game on tv, so there is not as much difference in cheering for seattle or tampa bay

agree with all of this. I think the CFL should continue to cater to their fans and not worry about NFL fans. The only thing the CFL needs to really worry about is Toronto getting an NFL team, because that would effectively kill the Argos and a good chunk of the CFL's revenue.

Yes that is right. I don't know if they need to worry about Toronto getting an NFL team, they won't spend CFL money to go see football, but they will spend way more money to see football? the Toronto Bills games didn't do well, of course part of that is because it was the Bills, but many of the games were papered at the end with cheap tickets and giveaways because they couldn't sell out. the sightlines at Rogers center are bad for football, changing the league won't change that. there is no where to tailgate at Rogers center, changing the league won't change that. NFL games are popular to go to because of the atmosphere, changing the league won't change the fan atmosphere at Rogers center, its still the same fans in the same old stadium. the novelty would wear off, and there would be a bunch of suits in attendance because the tickets will be insanely expensive.
the NFL also won't make much money in Toronto, they already get huge ratings in Canada, so that won't increase much, and Rogers center is small on the NFL stage.
And if it did happen, it would be bad for the CFL, but it would survive, it has survived through many things and years

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

Thanks! I will not. But as always I have to hear endless discussions about it at the bar, through friends, etc..



The point is that there are 11 minutes of football. 11 minutes!

Sorry for being so late to the party.

I find an effective way of cutting down on endless tedious discussions on a topic of little or no interest to me, is to not initiate one.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by calgaryrocks

Ok, I agree, but as others have mentioned the Grey Cup has a different feel to it, a better feel in my opinion. I was using the superbowl as an example of NFL hype, but you are right it is different in the regular season, although I don't think it's that different

It's totally different. If you put aside the fact that stadiums are state of the art, the only thing that different between a regular-season NFL game and a regular-season CFL game is the amount of people in the stands and NFL fans tend to tailgate way harder. Yeah, the player intros have a bit more showmanship behind them but that's because they have the money to spend on that kind of thing.

maybe a by-product of the game, but you could look at it the other way that the only way people get interested in watching the games is by putting money on them. The gambling creates interest where there wouldn't have been, which of course could be true of any league. of course how that gambling starts could be caused by various things, but hype is one of those factors.

Yeah, but I don't think people would gamble on the games unless they wanted to watch them. You have the odd addicts and professional gamblers that bet on all games, but those guys don't generally watch games. I became an NFL fan long before I could gamble on it. I think people gamble on the game because they like watching it but they don't have connections to any of the teams.

haha yea i know sometimes it seems rediculous, I just find its easier to watch a sport when I can go see it, or associate a team with civic/national pride.

Yeah, I guess it's a little different for me. I live in Victoria so it's not a big deal for me to go to Seattle for a game. I generally only go if my Eagles are in town, but it still stands. That being said, my dad lives outside of Nashville and we usually go to a Titans game every year.

Its purely a sports minded nationalism/civicism. do you cheer for Canada at the olympics? but I bet you still watch american shows or movies over canadian ones. sport is different. I think as Canadians we sometimes feel like we are being overly influenced by the Americans and try and grab onto whats Canadian, to be different then them. As a CFL fan, I see Canadians mock our game for various reasons, some legitimate, some not really legitimate. Putting down people who watch the CFL or saying they wish the league would stop existing (yep, some Canadians say that). refusing to accept any good parts of the sport, loving the NFL but refusing to even watch the CFL. its football, and I would think its easier to get behind a team from where you live, representing you (not really, but you get the idea). I guess dealing with this close mindedness of some people (not you rube, we've discussed this before!) and supposed superiority of people who watch NFL over people who watch CFL, we get defensive and stick up for what we enjoy.
sorry for the rant

Yeah, but there is something to be said for people who don't want to go watch a local team because they just don't enjoy the games. I didn't go to Vipers games when I lived in Calgary because I'm not a huge baseball fan. I get my digs in at the CFL but they're mostly tongue-in-cheek. I think the league is good for football in general.

no people aren't a fan of the NFL just because of a dancing robot, but people are a fan of the NFL because its the popular thing to do.

I don't think that's necessarily true. Maybe for casual fans, but hardcore NFL guys couldn't care less whether other people like it or not.

I disagree with crappy, its not like you are sitting through a cricket match or something, it is football. unless you think football is just better on tv (many think that), it is a long time to sit in a stadium for 11 or 20 minutes of action. of course NFL games take on average a half hour longer, so you are sitting longer. It is just that it is easier to go see your teams games if you are a 20 minute drive from seeing them.

Yeah, I didn't mean crappy. I used to go to the Labour Day Classic every year when I lived in Calgary and I thoroughly enjoyed myself, but I really couldn't be bothered to go to a Stamps/Als game. The football is just a little too sloppy for me.

no you don't have to go see a product you don't like, I mean more from the standpoint of making a connection with a team. but watching on tv, It is easy to watch games from anywhere. of course this might be part of why attendance is dropping in the NFL, cheaper HD tvs and better broadcasting make it a better game on tv, so there is not as much difference in cheering for seattle or tampa bay

Which is actually something the NFL is going to have to address. They're driving a lot of fans away with PSLs and high ticket prices. I think this is another reason to not go to an 18-game schedule, but I digress.

Yes that is right. I don't know if they need to worry about Toronto getting an NFL team, they won't spend CFL money to go see football, but they will spend way more money to see football? the Toronto Bills games didn't do well, of course part of that is because it was the Bills, but many of the games were papered at the end with cheap tickets and giveaways because they couldn't sell out. the sightlines at Rogers center are bad for football, changing the league won't change that. there is no where to tailgate at Rogers center, changing the league won't change that. NFL games are popular to go to because of the atmosphere, changing the league won't change the fan atmosphere at Rogers center, its still the same fans in the same old stadium. the novelty would wear off, and there would be a bunch of suits in attendance because the tickets will be insanely expensive.
the NFL also won't make much money in Toronto, they already get huge ratings in Canada, so that won't increase much, and Rogers center is small on the NFL stage.
And if it did happen, it would be bad for the CFL, but it would survive, it has survived through many things and years

Hard to say. A big reason why the Bills games weren't selling out had to do with how high ticket prices were. Face value of tickets were sometimes 2x as much as it cost to go see the games in Buffalo. Toronto has proven they don't need a rabid fanbase to support a team if they have a bunch of corporate shills willing to fill the building up.