Alex Ovechkin's Goal Scoring Record Chase

[Enoch Root]

After he retires, yes

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Not sure where I saw it originally, if it was on CP then apologies for the redundant post.

Should the Rocket Richard trophy be renamed for Ovechkin? Richard won the goal scoring race 5 times in his career, Ovi had done it nine times. He's arguably the greatest goal scorer to ever play the game.

I dont think its arguable anymore.

Setting the goalscoring record against modern goaltenders in the modern game? That jury has reached a verdict in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

After he retires, yes

I agree with this.

[GioforPM]

It's kind of amazing that Ovie's best goal scoring season is only the 24th best in NHL history (tied with Yzerman in 88-89).

I could make an argument that Bossy or Mario are the best goalscorers in NHL history based on GPG.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It's kind of amazing that Ovie's best goal scoring season is only the 24th best in NHL history (tied with Yzerman in 88-89).

I could make an argument that Bossy or Mario are the best goalscorers in NHL history based on GPG.

You could argue. But you’d be wrong. Goals per game is basically irrelevant. Era adjusted matters more.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Weitz

. Era adjusted matters more.

Do you have those figures?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Weitz

You could argue. But you’d be wrong. Goals per game is basically irrelevant. Era adjusted matters more.

Goals per game is actually highly relevant. Yes, you want to adjust it for era. But you also have to keep in mind length of career:

Lemieux at his peak was, I think you'll find, a better scorer (even era-adjusted) than Ovechkin at his peak. But Lemieux's peak was shorter because he contracted Hodgkin lymphoma and missed several years. He was a better player, but through no fault of his own, didn't get to play as many games.

If Bossy's career hadn't been cut short by injuries, how many more goals, even era-adjusted goals, would he have scored by the time he was the age Ovechkin is now? Impossible to say.

There was a controversy some years back in baseball, because players who had fairly pedestrian stats were getting into the Hall of Fame simply on longevity. They played 20 years in MLB and their aggregate totals looked impressive, but there was no point in their careers at which they looked like dominant players. That's the downside of looking at career numbers. Obviously Ovechkin was and is a dominant player and belongs in the Hall of Fame; but now we're talking about which one player is the greatest scorer of all time, so he has a higher bar to clear. I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that he clears it.

[Weitz]

Health matters as well to be the best of all time.

@UCB I think hockey reference has them.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Health matters as well to be the best of all time.

It depends on your criteria for ‘best’.

When I think of the best of all time, I don't think of the guy who scored the most goals over his career, but the guy who had the best ability to score goals at his peak.

Do you think Bobby Orr was a worse defenceman because his knees got wrecked before modern surgery techniques were invented? I think every intelligent observer of the game considers him the best ever to play the position, and he did not have health or longevity on his side. It's because of what he was at his best.

[CaptainYooh]

https://www.nhl.com/news/alex-ovechk...ks-suit-jacket

[Jason14h]

We also never know how fast and badly players would have dropped off as they aged . Maybe Bossy falls off a cliff in his early 30s.

That’s one of the reasons longevity matters, it’s very hard to keep playing at a competitive level as you get older.

What Ovy is doing at his age , and the era he played in , is nothing short of
Remarkable

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

It depends on your criteria for ‘best’.

When I think of the best of all time, I don't think of the guy who scored the most goals over his career, but the guy who had the best ability to score goals at his peak.

Do you think Bobby Orr was a worse defenceman because his knees got wrecked before modern surgery techniques were invented? I think every intelligent observer of the game considers him the best ever to play the position, and he did not have health or longevity on his side. It's because of what he was at his best.

Ovechkin was great at both though.

When it comes to era adjusting for goals then Ovechkin's 07-08 season is the 2nd best season of all time.

He has the most 50 goal seasons and it wouldn't be close if not for lockout and shortened seasons for Covid.

And he has the most NHL goals all time.

He's the best goal scorers of all time and he has both the peak and the longevity

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

We all know athletes across pretty much every sport are better than in decades past. Babe Ruth was fat. Jesse Owen’s records are routinely broken by U.S. college athletes, never mind Olympians. Glenn Hall probably wouldn’t be a starter on an AHL team today.

Training is much better. Equipment is much better. Coaching is much better. And since the financial rewards for top athletes are so much higher today, there’s incentives right from early childhood to find and exploit every avenue of improvement.

But it’s safe to assume that if those tools and incentives were in place for Ruth, Owens, and Hall, they would have used them. They could only excel in the contexts of their times, and they did excel.

If training and equipment continue to improve, we might see someone beat Ovechkin’s record in another 30 years. And future fans might look back on the hockey of 2005-25 and scoff at how inept Ovechkin’s opposition was (the goalie was beat by an undeflected shot from above the circle LOL!!!). But that won’t diminish Ovechkin’s accomplishment.

Why would training qnd equipment continue to improve, outside of new PEDs / cybernetic transplants / sports-performance targettung genetic engineering?

I think a lot of the physical parts of the sport have peaked and plateaued. Goaltending peaked over a decade ago and equipment sizes were actually un-improved because it became too effective.

I think older eras are put on too much of a pedastal with too much weight given to relative greatness. There were players back then who trained their asses off and were more fit than the average player today even with old methodologies. But their relative advantage due to that was totally profound compared to the most fit players of today vs the average player today.

The training might be better, but it's no longer a better advantage.

[Paulie Walnuts]

https://www.instagram.com/p/DIZyWM9M...M2NWQ0Ym9ibQ==

Bandz make her dance.

[FanIn80]

I don't know why I just thought about this, but imagine chasing the all-time assists record... man, at least goals are somewhat within your control. You'd have to just start shooting the puck at your own guys in front of the net or something. Like, the pressure everyone would be under trying to score goals for you.

Anyway, just another day inside my head lol.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

The first part of Ovi's career was nowhere near as explosive as Wayne's, despite Ovi still being very explosive with multiple 50+ goal seasons and a 65 goal season. It was Ovi's ability to stay productive after 35 years of age that allowed him to have a chance at the record.

There will be many players that have explosive starts to their careers, but none have carried that production this late into their careers. Remember how steep Iggy's drop off was, despite being dominate in his prime?

For that reason, I think no current players will have a sniff at the record, and I'm doubtful in the future anyone stays as durable and productive as Ovi. It wouldn't surprise me if he had a 40 goal season next year at age 40.

I agree. Consider that Ovechkin *increased* his lead on Matthews this season (by 12 goals), at age 39, despite playing less games than him.

[CroFlames]

Nah, not a fan of renaming awards. The awards are both recognition of a player's achievements, and also a nod to the history of the league and sport.

[Locke]

Damn Ovi...that was an absolute rocket. He just leaned into that one.

[getbak]

Finishes the season with 897. He'll score a hat trick in game one next season to get to 900.

[Goriders]

Ovi with 2 goals and an assist in a 3-2 win over the Havs

[CroFlames]

Surprisingly, his first ever playoff OT goal.

Ron almost cried on the broadcast.