the ongoing anti- racism, anti- oppression thread

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Her tweets aren’t a good look, but she had a good explanation.
.

Since when does racism have a good explanation? That aside it wasn't a good explanation. It was total BS.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Or am I a racist because white people need to be a protected class? I can’t decide if the willful ignorance of North American society’s power dynamic is intentional or if the urge to “both sides, many sides” every conversation is just that strong.

Regarding people not as individuals but as members of groups they have no control over, and then framing politics as a struggle between those groups, is toxic to liberal democracy. For every person you persuade to feel guilty over their race or gender, you alienate two. And the largest racial group is whites, and will continue to be whites for decades. So emphasizing race as a political identity, treating people as either protected classes or oppressors, is a losing tactic for the left.

“The longer they talk about identity politics, I got ’em ... I want them to talk about race and identity … every day.” - Steve Bannon.

Do we want to condemn racist incidents when they happen? Of course. But most people regard racism as bad because it denigrates groups of people - period. The notion that racism is bad when some people do it but not others, that some people deserve more compassion than others, is a belief of the dogmatic left that alienates most voters.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GGG

The consequence of racism against white people is near zero.

I get the sentiment and I don't disagree. But you can make the case that there has been a huge consequence in the form of Trump.

If you didn't have a bunch of old scared white people voting for Trump, he's not elected. Right or wrong (and of course they are wrong) they believe that their way of life is being attacked. When you have a lot of the left bending over backwards to argue in favour of a racist just because what she said was about the white race, all they're doing is further ingraining these people into their beliefs. Now they have more reason to believe that the left doesn't care about them.

The mental gymnastics that people have done to try and argue in favour of her is astonishing. Accounts have been made of her tweets except that "white" has been replaced with other people and races and have quickly been banned for racism and bigotry - as one would hope.

I'm sure Psychonet will come in and act like the old scared white people shouldn't matter, but at the end of the day they make up a huge portion of the vote. So when the left wants to keep isolating them, just don't cry when they continue to vote against the left.

(And I know, as a person who's more on the left, that I've generalized unfairly)

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I'm sure Psychonet will come in and act like the old scared white people shouldn't matter, but at the end of the day they make up a huge portion of the vote. So when the left wants to keep isolating them, just don't cry when they continue to vote against the left.

Naw I and others like me are just going to keep pumping out interracial children until there ain't any left.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Naw I and others like me are just going to keep pumping out interracial children until there ain't any left.

Oh good lord, you're planning to breed?!

[Matata]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Naw I and others like me are just going to keep pumping out interracial children until there ain't any left.

But with white people as the majority, on a long enough time line you just end up with white people who can get a tan. You're destroying cultures through ethno-conglomeration.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Naw I and others like me are just going to keep pumping out interracial children until there ain't any left.

Disgusting. Not the interracial children, that's cool. Just the idea that a woman would sleep with you.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I get the sentiment and I don't disagree. But you can make the case that there has been a huge consequence in the form of Trump.

If you didn't have a bunch of old scared white people voting for Trump, he's not elected. Right or wrong (and of course they are wrong) they believe that their way of life is being attacked. When you have a lot of the left bending over backwards to argue in favour of a racist just because what she said was about the white race, all they're doing is further ingraining these people into their beliefs. Now they have more reason to believe that the left doesn't care about them.

The mental gymnastics that people have done to try and argue in favour of her is astonishing. Accounts have been made of her tweets except that "white" has been replaced with other people and races and have quickly been banned for racism and bigotry - as one would hope.

I'm sure Psychonet will come in and act like the old scared white people shouldn't matter, but at the end of the day they make up a huge portion of the vote. So when the left wants to keep isolating them, just don't cry when they continue to vote against the left.

(And I know, as a person who's more on the left, that I've generalized unfairly)

The left corners itself on many issues.

The minority is more important than the majority (identity politics, dreamers)
The poor are more important than the rich (taxes, minimum wage)
The educated are more important than the uneducated (free college, globalism)

[Oling_Roachinen]

So when the interracial children grow up and become the majority with the power, does that retroactively make her tweets racist?

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

So when the interracial children grow up and become the majority with the power, does that retroactively make her tweets racist?

With those birthrates, maybe.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I get the sentiment and I don't disagree. But you can make the case that there has been a huge consequence in the form of Trump.

If you didn't have a bunch of old scared white people voting for Trump, he's not elected. Right or wrong (and of course they are wrong) they believe that their way of life is being attacked. When you have a lot of the left bending over backwards to argue in favour of a racist just because what she said was about the white race, all they're doing is further ingraining these people into their beliefs. Now they have more reason to believe that the left doesn't care about them.

The mental gymnastics that people have done to try and argue in favour of her is astonishing. Accounts have been made of her tweets except that "white" has been replaced with other people and races and have quickly been banned for racism and bigotry - as one would hope.

I'm sure Psychonet will come in and act like the old scared white people shouldn't matter, but at the end of the day they make up a huge portion of the vote. So when the left wants to keep isolating them, just don't cry when they continue to vote against the left.

(And I know, as a person who's more on the left, that I've generalized unfairly)

I’m going to disagree here. The RIght Wing news out right lies about various positions. If the “far left” did not exist Trump still gets elected. Trump is a reaction to economic hardshift needing someone to blame. So immigrants, gays, and other minorities get all lumped together as not part of the good old days. It isn’t the left advocating affirmation action or telling people to check their privilege that enabled Trump. The right used that as a fear based wedge to attack but in the absense of that wedge anything else’s is just as useful.

You had a motivated base that wasn’t going to allow a women to follow a black person into the White House.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

So when the interracial children grow up and become the majority with the power, does that retroactively make her tweets racist?

Probably, similar to how Nellie Mclungs support of residential schools while progressive at the time looks evil now.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

The left corners itself on many issues.

The minority is more important than the majority (identity politics, dreamers)
The poor are more important than the rich (taxes, minimum wage)
The educated are more important than the uneducated (free college, globalism)

As usual, you misstate the position of the left. Historically, the left doesn't say minorities, poor or educated are more important. Rather the left says they are equally important.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GGG

I’m going to disagree here. The RIght Wing news out right lies about various positions.

Sure, but now the 'fringe-right-leaning' have even less reason to view the left media when they are hiring and defending racists.

Obama got two terms, Hilary got the popular vote, there's not a ton of leeway. Don't need to "convert" everybody to the left, just not isolate anymore than they already have pretty much.

And again, weird that I'm talking and generalizing the left as though the NY Times is the Democratic party.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Cain

Holding people to the same standard isn't a cry about the plight of white people. Holding people to the same standard is the end goal in fighting racism isn't it? While not a huge deal in the big scheme of things there is some hypocrisy to seen here and some mental gymnastics to justify it.

I think justifying the tweets is probably just an unecessary reaction to the hypocrisy found in conservative people suddenly being real champions of punishing people for racist tweets. How did they feel about Roseanne getting the axe again? Didn’t Josh Hader get a standing ovation after his blatant racism surfaced?

What needs to be decided, collectively, is what that standard actually is, and it needs to be adhered to on both sides without “who said it” and who they said it about being the driving factors.

If you feel that racist tweets should be condemned, but ultimately not punished, then that’s fair, but it should be consistent. If we want to talk hypocrisy, it’s pretty rampant on both sides, so acting like it’s just the left or just the right is outright wrong.

Sometimes that means you experience it yourself before you’re ready to admit that maybe your reaction when it’s on the other side of the isle isn’t appropriate. I don’t think we should be condemning it as hypocrisy, but if the left turns around when the next tweets from a white guy come out and say “burn them to the ground,” after making excuses for this lady, then yeah, it looks pretty bad. Just like it looks bad when you don’t think a big deal should be made of Hader or Roseanne, but then suddenly do your best to make sure the NYT or James Gunn should take a fall for it.

It’s not an issue isolated to the right or the left.

[Cain]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I think justifying the tweets is probably just an unecessary reaction to the hypocrisy found in conservative people suddenly being real champions of punishing people for racist tweets. How did they feel about Roseanne getting the axe again? Didn’t Josh Hader get a standing ovation after his blatant racism surfaced?

What needs to be decided, collectively, is what that standard actually is, and it needs to be adhered to on both sides without “who said it” and who they said it about being the driving factors.

If you feel that racist tweets should be condemned, but ultimately not punished, then that’s fair, but it should be consistent. If we want to talk hypocrisy, it’s pretty rampant on both sides, so acting like it’s just the left or just the right is outright wrong.

Sometimes that means you experience it yourself before you’re ready to admit that maybe your reaction when it’s on the other side of the isle isn’t appropriate. I don’t think we should be condemning it as hypocrisy, but if the left turns around when the next tweets from a white guy come out and say “burn them to the ground,” after making excuses for this lady, then yeah, it looks pretty bad. Just like it looks bad when you don’t think a big deal should be made of Hader or Roseanne, but then suddenly do your best to make sure the NYT or James Gunn should take a fall for it.

It’s not an issue isolated to the right or the left.

I totally agree for what its worth.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

The left corners itself on many issues.

The minority is more important than the majority (identity politics, dreamers)
The poor are more important than the rich (taxes, minimum wage)
The educated are more important than the uneducated (free college, globalism)

I have removed your right wing spin and added a bit (though not as much) of left wing spin

The minority should be enabled so that they have the opportunity to reach the level of the majority and Children should not be punished for their parents crimes

The state has a responsibility to provide enough that people don't die and again that children aren't punished by the actions of their parents.

Education provides class mobility.

These aren't corners. There defining beliefs of how to make a better society. And relative to where the US currently is, they are right.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

As usual, you misstate the position of the left. Historically, the left doesn't say minorities, poor or educated are more important. Rather the left says they are equally important.

I think that is what they are trying to do but they box themselves in at times

They run on high social programs, taxing the rich.
They run on debt-free tuition for colleges but not necessarily for vocational schools.
They run on a $15 minimum wage. Minimum wage jobs should not be a career, but a stepping stone. With a minimum wage that high, more of those jobs get eliminated.
They are being held hostage by the Republicans on DACA. They have to cut bait at some point.

Plus other issues. I understand that the Democrats mean well and should be the alternative to the GOP at this time. But they do back themselves into a corner. Double downing on the Helsinki Summit or Sarah Jeong does not help.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by GGG

I have removed your right wing spin and added a bit (though not as much) of left wing spin

The minority should be enabled so that they have the opportunity to reach the level of the majority and Children should not be punished for their parents crimes

The state has a responsibility to provide enough that people don't die and again that children aren't punished by the actions of their parents.

Education provides class mobility.

These aren't corners. There defining beliefs of how to make a better society. And relative to where the US currently is, they are right.

This is the key point of your argument. How is this measured and at what point can you remove the training wheels? You get into slippery slope territory.

Let's take Trudeau's equal women in the cabinet for example? Is that going to be the precedent forever? What happens when a future government chooses less women? Are they sexist? What happens when a future government has more women? anything?

Expand that to the workplace, or colleges. Once you put in quotas for anything, is there a measurement to remove them? Affirmative action is now 60 years old in the US.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

They run on a $15 minimum wage. Minimum wage jobs should not be a career, but a stepping stone. With a minimum wage that high, more of those jobs get eliminated..

How do you propose they use that minimum wage job as a stepping stone? If you're making $15,000 a year, you're worried about making ends meet. You're not able to save up for schooling, even if it was free. The time off required is pretty prohibitive without savings or getting into large debt. Of course you're against school being free anyways.

Sure, there's a large number of people who "get out" but there's even more who get stuck in a poverty cycle.