[News] Friedman: Feaster/Flames are not going to blow it up

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Buff

Surely you not serious.

He is dead serious, 0.8 PPG guys grow on trees in this league, they are a dime a dozen. How could you ever trade Tanguay when you can literally get a 60 point winger on the waiver wire weekly if you wanted to.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Buff

Surely you not serious.

And don't call him Surely...

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by The Coppernian One

I don't know how many of these are good examples though. If memory serves Beech wasn't really a high end prospect at that point, the Guerin trade didn't net a high end prospect in return, same for the Hossa trade (Erik Christensen was three years in the league at that point). Bernier may have been considered a good prospect, so I guess there's room to argue there.

The Smyth trade is probably a good example however with the inclusion of Robert Nilsson and to a lesser extent O'Marra.

-Beech was 25 and had been traded for basically nothing earlier in the year; he wasn't worth anything.

-Bernier wasn't all that highly regarded and Buffalo shipped him off for a couple of mid round picks after 17 games, so they obviously didn't value him that highly.

-Esposito was in his 3rd straight year of decline and was barely putting up point per game numbers in the OHL as a 19 year old. He still had some hype from when he was 17, but his play was trending in the wrong direction.

Honestly, no one has come up with a top prospect being traded for a rental because it (almost) never happens. Nilsson's probably the closest, but even he was 4 years removed from the draft and there were real questions about his ability to adapt to the NHL at the time. Virtually without fail, it's always 2nd tier guys with some warts that get moved.

To use the Flames as an example, if they were a contender right now there's no way they'd ship out Baertschi or Gaudreau for a rental, but they might move a guy like Horak or Reinhart. That level of prospect (in addition to a 1st round pick and a half decent roster player and/or additional picks) is about what I'd expect in return for Iginla. Any talk of Hamilton or Pouliot is exceedingly unrealistic IMO.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by neo45

I really doubt Tanguay could return a 1st or 2nd round pick given his contract term and the way he played in Tampa Bay. His numbers look alright but if any team actually watches the Flames they probably wouldn't take Tanguay for free.

You're either a moron or an ass. Possibly both.

Dominic Moore:
- .35 career ppg
- only scored 40+ points ONCE in his career
- traded to MIN for a 3rd round pick in 2007
- traded to BUF for a 2nd round pick in 2008
- traded to MON for a 2nd round pick in 2010
- traded w/ a 7th round pick to SJ for a 2nd round pick in 2012

And now at the ripe old age of 33, can't even crack an NHL roster.



And nobody would take Tanguay for free, you say?

[neo45]

Originally Posted by flamesrule_kipper34

Explain your reasoning behind thinking Tanguay could clear waivers?

You are crazy, absolutely crazy.

Tanguay gets his points but he is -8 (worst on the team) and gives the puck away more than any other player. The other guy who mentioned it is right, Tanguay causes more harm than good when he is on the ice. He does a great job killing penalties for the other team. it has been proven in the past that when he doesn't get top line minutes, he doesn't get points. So you either give him top line minutes where he hurts your team, or you don't give him top line minutes, where he doesn't put up points. What good is he then?

If a GM only looked at his stats they might be willing to give up something for him, but if they actually watched the games they would wisen up and stay away. Especially with the term left on his deal

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

He is dead serious, 0.8 PPG guys grow on trees in this league, they are a dime a dozen. How could you ever trade Tanguay when you can literally get a 60 point winger on the waiver wire weekly if you wanted to.

Sarcasm, yes?

[neo45]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

You're either a moron or an ass. Possibly both.

Dominic Moore:
- .35 career ppg
- only scored 40+ points ONCE in his career
- traded to MIN for a 3rd round pick in 2007
- traded to BUF for a 2nd round pick in 2008
- traded to MON for a 2nd round pick in 2010
- traded w/ a 7th round pick to SJ for a 2nd round pick in 2012

And now at the ripe old age of 33, can't even crack an NHL roster.

You realize Moore's wife just died of cancer and he is taking time away from hockey right now? Pretty low of you to insult the dude when he has nothing to do with with this thread, he could easily crack an nhl roster

Moore wasn't signed for 3.5 mil over 4 years when he was moved at the deadline those years. Completely different scenario.

A comparable would be David Booth maybe. What did he get the Panthers?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Looks like neo's still stuck in the Matrix. Come join us in the real world bud!

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by neo45

A comparable would be David Booth maybe. What did he get the Panthers?

A comparable for Tanguay?

LOL

You need to work on your comparables.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

A comparable for Tanguay?

LOL

You need to work on your comparables.

Closest player I could come up with that was dealt in recent memory. Closer to Tanguay in skill-level, pay, and contract length than Dominic Moore. If you have an example feel free to say it

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by neo45

You realize Moore's wife just died of cancer and he is taking time away from hockey right now? Pretty low of you to insult the dude when he has nothing to do with with this thread, he could easily crack an nhl roster

I'll apologize for the "can't crack an NHL roster" comment. I did not know this.

The rest of my post stands though. He's been traded at the deadline 3 TIMES for a 2nd round pick, and once for a 3rd.

Don't argue that he has more value than Tanguay.

Originally Posted by neo45

Moore wasn't signed for 3.5 mil over 4 years when he was moved at the deadline those years. Completely different scenario.

Tanguay's contract isn't a hinderance. 3.5M for consistent 65pt top 6 winger is a damn good deal.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by neo45

You realize Moore's wife just died of cancer and he is taking time away from hockey right now? Pretty low of you to insult the dude when he has nothing to do with with this thread, he could easily crack an nhl roster

Moore wasn't signed for 3.5 mil over 4 years when he was moved at the deadline those years. Completely different scenario.

A comparable would be David Booth maybe. What did he get the Panthers?

Booth is a comparable? A young guy with concussion problems who cracked the 41 point barrier once in his NHL career and was signed for that year and an additional three years at 4.25 million at the time of his contract? That guy is a comparable to Tanguay, a player whose worst NHL season amounted to 3 less points than Booth's second best NHL season ever? Tanguay a guy who two seasons ago topped Booth's best NHL season ever by 9 points and last year topped Booth's second best season every by 9 points. Tanguay, a guy who this year is on pace over an 82 game schedule to top Booth's career best numbers by 6 points is the comparable? The only thing that makes them comparable is that they both had 3 years left on their contract.

To answer your question, the Panthers (who I assume were trying to get a quality player that year) got a 50 point man from the year before and Marco Sturm who was basically a contractual throw in.

The odd thing about your example is that if there is a comparable in that trade it is Samuelsson, he is closer to Tanguay's age, not quite as productive as Tanguay but definitely a better comparable in that trade. And the answer to that riddle would be that Mikael got the Canucks a young winger and a 3rd round draft pick.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by neo45

Closest player I could come up with that was dealt in recent memory. Closer to Tanguay in skill-level, pay, and contract length than Dominic Moore. If you have an example feel free to say it

Tanguay put up 37 points one year in Tampa. People were calling him washed up, wondering what was wrong with him, he had to sign in Calgary on a one-year deal for under 2 million to try to resurrect his career. 37 points.

David Booth had 30 points last season, 40 the year before.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by neo45

You realize Moore's wife just died of cancer and he is taking time away from hockey right now? Pretty low of you to insult the dude when he has nothing to do with with this thread, he could easily crack an nhl roster

Moore wasn't signed for 3.5 mil over 4 years when he was moved at the deadline those years. Completely different scenario.

A comparable would be David Booth maybe. What did he get the Panthers?

You want a comparable? I know peeople will freak on this, but you would be hard pressed to find a better comparison, stats-wise...

Tanguay: 907GM, 246G, 509A, 755P, .832 PPG +154
D. Sedin: 885GM, 287G, 454A, 741P, .837 PPG +168

Playoffs:
98GM, 19G, 40A, 59P
92GM, 23G, 41A, 64P

Sedin is making $6.1M for another year

Before you go off the deep end, take Daniel away from Henrik and put him in the same situation as Tanguay - then compare. Daniel is certainly a more apt comparison than Booth.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Booth is a comparable? A young guy with concussion problems who cracked the 41 point barrier once in his NHL career and was signed for that year and an additional three years at 4.25 million at the time of his contract? That guy is a comparable to Tanguay, a player whose worst NHL season amounted to 3 less points than Booth's second best NHL season ever? Tanguay a guy who two seasons ago topped Booth's best NHL season ever by 9 points and last year topped Booth's second best season every by 9 points. Tanguay, a guy who this year is on pace over an 82 game schedule to top Booth's career best numbers by 6 points is the comparable? The only thing that makes them comparable is that they both had 3 years left on their contract.

That is twisting the stats quite a bit. Booth was 26 years old at the time, had played all 82 games the season before, and had a 60 point season under his belt. The reason he was had for cheap was because of his salary and the term of his salary, which is why Tanguay has no value (Tanguay has his age lowering his value)

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

The odd thing about your example is that if there is a comparable in that trade it is Samuelsson, he is closer to Tanguay's age, not quite as productive as Tanguay but definitely a better comparable in that trade. And the answer to that riddle would be that Mikael got the Canucks a young winger and a 3rd round draft pick.

Samuellson is a terrible comparison because he didn't have 3 more years left on a huge deal. I admit that if Tanguay was an upcoming UFA, a team would want him as a rental, probably more than Samuellson as he is a better player

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Recently?

-Brendan Witt from the Capitals to Nashville for a prospect (Beech) and a first round pick.
-Ryan Smyth to the Islanders Robert Nillson (former first round pick) O'Marra(same) and a 1st rounder in 2007
-Bill Guerin to the Sharks for a 1st rounder
-Marian Hossa to the Penquins
-Brian Campbell from the Sabres to the Sharks for Bernier and a first rounder

Sorry, the post I quoted said top prospect.

I'm confident the Flames can get a late 1st rounder included in a deal for Iginla. But there's no precedent to suggest a team is going to surrender one of their top prospects at the deadline for a 35 year old pending UFA.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Tanguay put up 37 points one year in Tampa. People were calling him washed up, wondering what was wrong with him, he had to sign in Calgary on a one-year deal for under 2 million to try to resurrect his career. 37 points.

David Booth had 30 points last season, 40 the year before.

What do his lastest two seasons have to do with what he fetched in a trade before that?

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You want a comparable? I know peeople will freak on this, but you would be hard pressed to find a better comparison, stats-wise...

Tanguay: 907GM, 246G, 509A, 755P, .832 PPG +154
D. Sedin: 885GM, 287G, 454A, 741P, .837 PPG +168

Playoffs:
98GM, 19G, 40A, 59P
92GM, 23G, 41A, 64P

Sedin is making $6.1M for another year

Before you go off the deep end, take Daniel away from Henrik and put him in the same situation as Tanguay - then compare. Daniel is certainly a more apt comparison than Booth.

Shots fired.

[Badgers Nose]

Tanguay aslo has a thing called a Stanley Cup ring, I hear that is important to some people...



Owl says return for Tanguay at deadline will be 75-80% of what the Flames get for Iggy.

IMO he won't want to be here if Iggy leaves.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by neo45

What do his lastest two seasons have to do with what he fetched in a trade before that?

He had 40 points the season before he was traded, he only played 6 games after that.