General Ongoing Coyotes saga thread

[Coach]

^^^ To be fair to your bolded part, don't the lowest Flames seats go for like 30 something per game? 1/3 the price seems about right considering the market.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by troutman

Open House, May 21st:

http://view.coyotesmarketing.com/?j=...0c7d741071&r=0

The team is opening the doors at Jobing.com Arena for fans that are interested in owning a seat for the whole 2012-13 Season. Learn about exclusive season ticket holder benefits like a team autograph session, den discounts, and all-inclusive food and drink packages!

The Coyotes are amidst their third consecutive playoff berth and a historic Stanley Cup Playoff run. You can join the Pack now at just $10 per game. That's 43 games of the Valley's most exciting team.

My first Flames seasons in 03-04 were $13 a seat per game - the first few games of the season we had Flames ticket reps handing us tickets to sit in the lower bowl for free.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

My first Flames seasons in 03-04 were $13 a seat per game - the first few games of the season we had Flames ticket reps handing us tickets to sit in the lower bowl for free.

The Flames had also missed the playoffs for 7 straight years. The Coyotes are in the Conference finals.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

My first Flames seasons in 03-04 were $13 a seat per game - the first few games of the season we had Flames ticket reps handing us tickets to sit in the lower bowl for free.

Are the Flames nosebleeds comparable to the Coyotes worse seats?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Are the Flames nosebleeds comparable to the Coyotes worse seats?

Not in anyway as far as what I saw. That arena is beautiful and wouldn't have a bad seat in the house.

I'm going to break out the conspiracy theory here and suggest that this "deal" goes away pretty quick once the Coyotes are out. Bettman and his pals brought this up to quell the potential distraction for the team, and really it does no long term harm, but thats my theory.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

My first Flames seasons in 03-04 were $13 a seat per game - the first few games of the season we had Flames ticket reps handing us tickets to sit in the lower bowl for free.

That was 9 years ago. The tickets in the bleeds for the 94-95 flames were probably six bucks. (they were 11 with service fees in game day).

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The Flames had also missed the playoffs for 7 straight years. The Coyotes are in the Conference finals.

They've also been about to leave town every offseason for the last 3 years. Absolutely stunning that they've struggled to build a dedicated fan base under those circumstances.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by valo403

They've also been about to leave town every offseason for the last 3 years. Absolutely stunning that they've struggled to build a dedicated fan base under those circumstances.

and why have they been about to leave town? If they had any decent attendance buyers would be lining up to buy them. Gary and the CoG have given the fans every chance, even icing a playoff team. The only question I have is why has Gary continued with these losers other than he's invested too much of his ego in the situation.

Ten dollar tickets, I bet the Hitmen tickets aren't that cheap.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

and why have they been about to leave town? If they had any decent attendance buyers would be lining up to buy them. Gary and the CoG have given the fans every chance, even icing a playoff team. The only question I have is why has Gary continued with these losers other than he's invested too much of his ego in the situation.

Ten dollar tickets, I bet the Hitmen tickets aren't that cheap.

Chicken and egg question. People don't show up because the team is about to leave, the team is about to leave because people don't show up.

And yes, it's all about ego

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by valo403

Chicken and egg question. People don't show up because the team is about to leave, the team is about to leave because people don't show up.

And yes, it's all about ego

People don't show up because not enough of them care. There has been no announcement and no writing on the wall that they are about to leave like in Winnipeg and in Quebec City and there is no comparison to Phoenix's situation and Calgary's and Edmonton's during the 90s. The Flames were hampered by the Canadian dollar and couldn't compete while the Coyotes can compete but still fans won't come out to the games.

They have a great arena, they have the American dollar, they have a good team, they have the backing of the CoG and the commissioner, and they have 5M people to draw from. They still can't make it work.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

People don't show up because not enough of them care. There has been no announcement and no writing on the wall that they are about to leave like in Winnipeg and in Quebec City and there is no comparison to Phoenix's situation and Calgary's and Edmonton's during the 90s. The Flames were hampered by the Canadian dollar and couldn't compete while the Coyotes can compete but still fans won't come out to the games.

They have a great arena, they have the American dollar, they have a good team, they have the backing of the CoG and the commissioner, and they have 5M people to draw from. They still can't make it work.

So now we need official announcements of a move? This team has had one foot out the door for 3 years, expecting to develop a fan base in that situation is laughable.

Prior to the bankruptcy the franchise was run into the ground by a pathetic owner in Moyes, who milked all he could from the team to prop another failing business and thought that installing Gretzky behind the bench was a cure all for the hockey side of things. They were a laughing stock.

I don't know that it will ever work in Phoenix, but the situation to date has never given it a realistic shot at happening.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by valo403

So now we need official announcements of a move? This team has had one foot out the door for 3 years, expecting to develop a fan base in that situation is laughable.

Prior to the bankruptcy the franchise was run into the ground by a pathetic owner in Moyes, who milked all he could from the team to prop another failing business and thought that installing Gretzky behind the bench was a cure all for the hockey side of things. They were a laughing stock.

I don't know that it will ever work in Phoenix, but the situation to date has never given it a realistic shot at happening.

Every failure has lots of excuses. For whatever reason the people of Phoenix don't care.

Oh yeah since you're wrong about your first statement and don't believe anything I say and are too lazy to look up anything by yourself. Here's a link.

[troutman]

It's not only that there are $10 tickets available that I find interesting (most teams must have some bargains), but that they are doing a season ticket drive without knowing the strategy of the new ownership group. I suppose they have no choice but to try and capitalize on the momentum they have, but what if the new group has different ideas on pricing? They have to do much better on ticket revenues.

[troutman]

cecilia chan ‏ @ceciliachan_AZ
Glendale City Manager Ed Beasley has formed owned consulting company, Ed Beasley and Associates, LLC, according to AZ Corp. Commission

[valo403]

Originally Posted by troutman

It's not only that there are $10 tickets available that I find interesting (most teams must have some bargains), but that they are doing a season ticket drive without knowing the strategy of the new ownership group. I suppose they have no choice but to try and capitalize on the momentum they have, but what if the new group has different ideas on pricing? They have to do much better on ticket revenues.

You can't operate under the assumption that new ownership will even exist. They have to continue on with status quo until that changes, putting the brakes on things out of concern that the strategy would change would be far more harmful than operating as is.

This assumes that the potential new ownership group isn't already loosely involved in longer term initiative, which could certainly be happening.

[fundmark19]

I sat in the worse seat in the house in phx and it was better then the worse seats in the 200's in calgary. My personal opinion

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by fundmark19

I sat in the worse seat in the house in phx and it was better then the worse seats in the 200's in calgary. My personal opinion

What, you didn't want to shell out $5 more for premium seating?

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by fundmark19

I sat in the worse seat in the house in phx and it was better then the worse seats in the 200's in calgary. My personal opinion

Well I'd certainly hope an arena built in 2003 would have better seating/sight lines than one built 20 years before.

[angrysoutherner]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The Flames had also missed the playoffs for 7 straight years. The Coyotes are in the Conference finals.

The issue with the Coyotes is a three prong issue. Firstly, the Coyotes up until two seasons prior to this season were no competitive. The second issue was that Phoenix was not and in my opinion is still not a hcokey market, when you have a team that does not win in a town that does not have a strong hockey market people will not buy tickets.

The third issue was and stil is the American Economy, Florida, Nevada and Phoenix all were the biggest victems of the economy crash due to the sub-prime mortgage issue. Those three states had by far the highest amout of foreclosures in the states. The people in those states had a hard enough time paying for household items so luxury items like tickets so a hockey game were the last on their list of things to purchase.

Further, due to the fact that it is not a hockey town they would not have the corporate sponsorship that other towns (toronto) had and therefor less season tickets would be sold to companies.

Finally, unlike florida where you have lots of Snow birds that own property in the states from Toronto and other hockey provines do not reside to in Phoenix that they do in Toronto,

These are reasons why Phoenix has and will continue to have financial difficulites.

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by angrysoutherner

The issue with the Coyotes is a three prong issue. Firstly, the Coyotes up until two seasons prior to this season were no competitive. The second issue was that Phoenix was not and in my opinion is still not a hcokey market, when you have a team that does not win in a town that does not have a strong hockey market people will not buy tickets.

The third issue was and stil is the American Economy, Florida, Nevada and Phoenix all were the biggest victems of the economy crash due to the sub-prime mortgage issue. Those three states had by far the highest amout of foreclosures in the states. The people in those states had a hard enough time paying for household items so luxury items like tickets so a hockey game were the last on their list of things to purchase.

Further, due to the fact that it is not a hockey town they would not have the corporate sponsorship that other towns (toronto) had and therefor less season tickets would be sold to companies.

Finally, unlike florida where you have lots of Snow birds that own property in the states from Toronto and other hockey provines do not reside to in Phoenix that they do in Toronto,

These are reasons why Phoenix has and will continue to have financial difficulites.

The funny thing is that all those reasons you mentioned are exactly why the NHL needs to continue to support Coyotes and fight to keep them in Phoenix.

To paraphrase you:

• Phoenix has not been competitive.
• Phoenix is not a natural hockey market, therefore people are less likely to support a losing franchise.
• The economy in southern states like Arizona has still not recovered from the sub-prime mortage situation.
• The poor economic situation further cripples the Coyotes financially because corporate sponsors.

However, I propose that because Phoenix is not a natural hockey market, you have to allow adequate time for Phoenix to become a hockey market.

Since hockey just came to Phoenix 16 years ago, kids that have grown up going to games there whole lives are only in high school. I would suspect, admittedly without looking at any studies, that it would take at roughly 20-25 years to cultivate a hockey market where there was none before.

Obviously that timetable could significantly increase with a winning franchise, but as you have noted, Phoenix has never been a winning franchise.

When combined with the extenuating circumstances of the economic downturn, it makes perfect sense that now is not the time for the NHL to cut and run from Phoenix.