[Signing] Flames sign Deryk Engelland (3yrs, $2.9M AAV)

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I saw a big difference, if you didn't well what can I say.

But what's the difference?

The reason why the Flames are better this year:

Brodie's development
Gaudreau's development
Monahan's development
and 2 competent goaltenders instead of 1

Nothing to do with Engelland or Bollig.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

I think he can if he's on a conditioning stint, but I don't know if that applies though with him skating with the Flames for the past few weeks.

I agree that he can on a conditioning stint now, but the article talked about him being assigned to Adirondack from training camp, which he couldn't.

It is actually an article about Sieloff, who could be assigned to Abbotsford last year because of where he was drafted from and his age by the end of the season, so I apologize if it I took the comment out of context as to how it applies to Bennett.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

But what's the difference?

The reason why the Flames are better this year:

Brodie's development
Gaudreau's development
Monahan's development
and 2 competent goaltenders instead of 1

Nothing to do with Engelland or Bollig.

It was Engelland I think that laid out a huge hit that completely changed the momentum of the game and we ended up winning, one of those LA comebacks I think. That's a 2 point difference so it's more than nothing. Yeah another Russell or Wideman in the 6th spot would be nice but guys like that aren't exactly in abundance

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

It's interesting that all of Treliving's moves thus far have either been really good, or really bad. Not a lot in between.

Bollig - Terrible
Raymond - Terrible
Engelland - Terrible
Setoguchi - Terrible
Diaz - Filler

Bennett - Great
McDonald - Great
Smith - Very Good
Hickey - Great
Hiller - Great
Shore for Knight - A likely NHL roster player for a guy near the bottom of the forward depth ranks.

I think you are drastically overestimating even what Treliving was expecting from a lot of those moves you've flagged as terrible.

With the nice turnaround this year, I think people are forgetting that coming into this season Calgary was not an appealing destination for players and the team was very much in need to ensure we created competition for spots, had a group of youngsters who no one could have predicted was as close as they might have been, and some serious holes in the defence. Pretty sure Treliving was aware he was bringing in some "lesser bodies" and unlikely reclamation projects as he tried to fill out this roster and create competition. Not much else he could do with a team most predicted was years out from even having a sniff at the playoffs, and I'm impressed with how responsible he was with the contracts he did sign. Some overpayments which was likely required to get the players to come, but nothing the team couldn't manage and very responsible term on all.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by flambers

Bollig - plays his role well on the 4th line, they need a player who is physical.

Bollig is just there. For the next two years. For a 3rd round pick. The term is the issue. Which seems to be a theme with Treliving.

Raymond - had a good season last year, his injuries are bad luck. Hoping he can turn his season around.

I'm not so sure. You can blame injuries, but he probably is what he is - a soft, fast-skating line goal scorer with tunnel vision and a propensity to pass to the neutral zone. While the goal scorer part is exciting, the reality is that he's been unable to find chemistry with any of our centres so far. I'm willing to be patient with him; but I wouldn't just say he's had bad luck.

Engelland - Flames need a physical dman, especially since they have very little depth in this position. They over paid, but I bet they will have to over pay to since UFAs.

The issue isn't the cap hit (which is still absurd), it's the term that pretty much makes him unmovable and a pretty tough option to waive - not what you want out of a #7 D-man.

With the nice turnaround this year, I think people are forgetting that coming into this season Calgary was not an appealing destination for players and the team was very much in need to ensure we created competition for spots

While true, but I still think there's still something cringeworthy about him being a player/contract I'd trade in a heartbeat for Nikita Nikitin and his contract on a similarily unappealing destination.

[Enoch Root]

I think it's pretty awesome that the worst thing Flames fans can think to whine about is a couple of fringe players making $1-3M on a team with $15M or so of cap space.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

^^^^^

Except the cap hit and the term cause no issues for this team based on our current cap situation. If we were a cap team looking to contend and were being handcuffed on making other moves because of Englland it would be an issue, but that's not our situation, so it doesn't matter.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I saw a big difference, if you didn't well what can I say.

Burke and Hartley sure did as well.

[neo45]

I just have a ton of trouble believing Phoenix or Toronto were going to offer him that much money that we had to sign a laughable contract to get him here.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Engelland is overpaid which everyone including Treliving agreed on day 1. Him on the roster helped them ease Mcgrattan out of the line-up.

So many people expect the bottom pairing to play like an NHL top-4. Not to mention I've never seen a 4th line play so many minutes alongside the bottom pairing. Hartley seems to set them up for disaster which is about the only thing I disagree with in his coaching style.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I think it's pretty awesome that the worst thing Flames fans can think to whine about is a couple of fringe players making $1-3M on a team with $15M or so of cap space.

If they were one year contracts, you would probably hear zero whining but cap space can disappear quickly and Engelland/Raymond/Smid/Bollig could eventually be an issue. They aren't simply overpaid like Jones or Stajan, they are actually playing badly and costing the team

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by neo45

I just have a ton of trouble believing Phoenix or Toronto were going to offer him that much money that we had to sign a laughable contract to get him here.

There was probably 0 teams in the league less appealing than Calgary last offseason. People were fully expecting Calgary to be the worst team by far, Calgary was going to have to over pay for most players they could sign. Don't forget, he played a regular shift for Pittsburgh, his stock likely wasn't that low.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by flambers

Bollig - plays his role well on the 4th line, they need a player who is physical.

Raymond - had a good season last year, his injuries are bad luck. Hoping he can turn his season around.

Engelland - Flames need a physical dman, especially since they have very little depth in this position. They over paid, but I bet they will have to over pay to sign UFAs.

Setoguchi - It was a risk, but there is no down side of the move. If it turned out well great but if it did not no biggie. Especially since the Flames have a tonne of cap space.

Diaz - for a dman who is 7th on the depth charts he has played quite well.

they have all been turds in the 2014/15 season that is all that matters. What they were all suppose to add to the Flames they havn't outside of Engelland who is a terrible positional D man but does play physical I will give him that much.
Raymond played well for 3 weeks or whatever and has been aweful since his injury return.
Setoguchi was a joke.
Diaz is nothing. I still can't figure out what he does well. Point production nope, physical nope. Shut down D nope. Playmaker nope. Decent skater sure, he should be in the AHL but due to depth he isn't.
Bollig is a big player that plays dumb and smaller than he should.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by neo45

If they were one year contracts, you would probably hear zero whining but cap space can disappear quickly and Engelland/Raymond/Smid/Bollig could eventually be an issue. They aren't simply overpaid like Jones or Stajan, they are actually playing badly and costing the team

the team is over-achieving everyone's expectations

they are not costing the team

by the time the cap is an issue, these contracts will all be gone or in their final year, and thus easy to take care of

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by neo45

If they were one year contracts, you would probably hear zero whining but cap space can disappear quickly and Engelland/Raymond/Smid/Bollig could eventually be an issue. They aren't simply overpaid like Jones or Stajan, they are actually playing badly and costing the team

How are Smid and Englland costing the team? Calgary has no better options on D the. Those two, so by default we are better with them than with out.

And 3 years on those terms are fine, especially considering our cap situation, it will take a while to grow, and we are also a team that can burry those contract 2 years from now if need be, so I'm not even sure what the worry is with these, regardless on the opinions of the players. These contracts aren't hurting us now, and have little to no ability to do so over the next 3 years so who cares?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by neo45

If they were one year contracts, you would probably hear zero whining but cap space can disappear quickly

Backlund
Brodie
Gio
Monahan
Russell
Bouma
Ortio
Granlund

Some guys who, if do we want to retain them likely will be making more than their current pay in 2016-2017 when Bollig, Raymond, Engelland still are on contract. I think that's more than 15 mil in raises, so I can only hope the cap goes up.

Is it a huge issue? No, but it is kind of concerning that Treliving is fine with these long term deals to fringe guys who are more likely to be waived than a part of any decent trades. That's all. It'd be pretty disappointing if we have to move a guy like Stajan for cap space only because these other guys are less desirable. His most thoughtful signing was the Hiller one and shouldn't be ignored on the other hand.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Backlund
Brodie
Gio
Monahan
Russell
Bouma
Ortio
Granlund

Some guys who, if do we want to retain them likely will be making more than their current pay in 2016-2017 when Bollig, Raymond, Engelland still are on contract. I think that's more than 15 mil in raises, so I can only hope the cap goes up.

Is it a huge issue? No, but it is kind of concerning that Treliving is fine with these long term deals to fringe guys who are more likely to be waived than a part of any decent trades. That's all.

Brodie needs to be removed from your list, he's extended beyond these. For Ortio, our other two goalies are off contract befor that so likely no worries. For the rest, only one year overlaps, and we have so much cap space it's not funny. That coupled with our ability to burry these, this fear/ argument is a red herring or the boggey man, it's not real.

[Dagger]

The bigger issue is if Treliving can hand out bigger contracts in free agency that aren't as poorly valued as Engelland and Raymond. You have to overpay to get players in free agency, but overpaying and handcuffing yourself are two different things. If Treliving hands out cash to better players like he did Raymond and Engelland, then there is real cause for concern.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Backlund
Brodie
Gio
Monahan
Russell
Bouma
Ortio
Granlund

Some guys who, if do we want to retain them likely will be making more than their current pay in 2016-2017 when Bollig, Raymond, Engelland still are on contract. I think that's more than 15 mil in raises, so I can only hope the cap goes up.

Is it a huge issue? No, but it is kind of concerning that Treliving is fine with these long term deals to fringe guys who are more likely to be waived than a part of any decent trades. That's all. His most thoughtful signing was the Hiller one and shouldn't be ignored on the other hand, but it also makes for some head-scratching as his is the most moveable.

CSW addressed some of the issues already, but I would also like to point out that the year you are referring to is the last year of The contracts that seem to bother you.

And being in the last year makes them much easier to get rid of, if so desired.

This is a non issue.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Dagger

The bigger issue is if Treliving can hand out bigger contracts in free agency that aren't as poorly valued as Engelland and Raymond. You have to overpay to get players in free agency, but overpaying and handcuffing yourself are two different things. If Treliving hands out cash to better players like he did Raymond and Engelland, then there is real cause for concern.

I agree completely, but being concerned about that based on the Englland and Raymond signings is premature.

As mentioned, those are contracts Treliving handed out when the Flames were a very un-appealing destination for free agents, a team not close to contending, needed to make the cap floor, was expecting to have to fill roster spots and had cap space galore.

Treliving has yet to show what he can do in free agency with the team close to contending and being a more appealing destination, so time will tell, but you can't assume he's going to do what he did with these contracts when our situation changes, it completely changes the environment and opportunities.