Explosion at the Boston Marathon

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Flames89 has said that people should be expected to be questioned by the authorities if they "looked sketchy" or "fit a profile".

I wonder if he would consider the following person worthy of questioning:

White male
Late 20s
Roman Catholic
Clean shaven, neatly trimmed haircut
Army veteran, awarded the Bronze Star for service in Iraq

I would.

Several people with their feelings hurt here appear to have a very simple, immature understanding of profiling. Its not an excuse to persecute brown people. If the profile is for young white guys then so be it.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Equality, dignity and privacy are foundational values that every person in the Western world relies on every single day. Catching bombers is something that we only very rarely have to do. I therefore disagree with you.

Marshall Law, Mandatory Evacuations, Nationalization of the Private sector... these are all things that encroach on basic rights that we have in western society but can be enacted under desperate measures.

all of these are also more severe then bringing in someone for questioning based on their profile.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Makarov

What on earth are you talking about? "White privilege" is an observation about our society, not an observation about white people.

Good grief.

Its an observation about how supposedly some people have a mythical priveledge not afforded to others based on their skin colour....what part of that do you not grasp?

Good grief indeed.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Middle-class, white, CIS males are pretty persecuted.

Give the guy a break.

No one claimed to be persecuted.

Quit making stuff up.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by transplant99

No one claimed to be persecuted.

Quit making stuff up.

It's true, everyone is equal in Canada. We're all treated the same by society, regardless of our outward appearance.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

You might be right, and that should be part of what they profile. Do you feel better now?

Why would that make me feel better? I'm arguing against any racial, religious, sexuality or gender profiling. I don't care if it is brown people being profiled when bombs go off or white, middle aged men in child custody disputes (being profiled as, or presumed to be, the less active parent, for example).

I bet there's a large team of people who do this all day every day as a full time job. They don't just kick the old bomber profiling machine into gear on Sept 12, 2001 for a little while then fire it up for a few days again starting last Monday.

Even better! We should be keeping an extra close eye on those brown guys all year round!

[Kybosh]

Maybe I'm misreading what's being discussed here, but I don't think anyone disagrees with profiling as it is shown to be an effective tool. I, like many others likely, have no problem with criminal profiling but have a big problem with arm chair detectives attempting the same thing. Law enforcement bodies have extremely sophisticated protocols, science and software making profiling an extremely powerful tool. An arm chair detective has pictures stripped from the internet and some sort of inherent racial bias.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by polak

Marshall Law, Mandatory Evacuations, Nationalization of the Private sector... these are all things that encroach on basic rights that we have in western society but can be enacted under desperate measures.

all of these are also more severe then bringing in a someone for questioning based on their profile.

Certainly no rights are absolute. There is no question about that. However, any infringement of those rights must clearly justifiable (in my opinion.) Its a question of balancinv the degree of infringement with the purpirted benefit to be gained by the infringement.

In the example of a forced evacuation, evacuees' right to security is temporarily infringed, but the benefit is direct and substantial: lives are very likely saved.

The benefit of racial profiling is indirect, undemonstrated, and infinitesimally small (at least based on everything I have read.). Further, the damage done to the profilee is likely deep and long-lasting.

[polak]

I don't disagree but using your point and flipping it around, profiling doesn't really effect the person under suspicion all that much if they have nothing to hide. Certianly less then the risk that exists with the bomber being at large.

Originally Posted by Makarov

The benefit of racial profiling is indirect, undemonstrated, and infinitesimally small (at least based on everything I have read.). Further, the damage done to the profilee is likely deep and long-lasting.

I recommend checking out some stuff on Israeli airports. They rely heavily on profiling and have been extremely successful at keeping their airports secure despite being located in one of the most unstable and constantly threatened places in the world.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Its an observation about how supposedly some people have a mythical priveledge not afforded to others based on their skin colour....what part of that do you not grasp?

Good grief indeed.

Do you really not see the difference between making statements like "on average, in the United States, white people earn more money, live longer, and receive better education", and enacting policies where people are more likely to be detained following a bomb explosion based solely on the colour of their skin?

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by polak

I recommend checking out some stuff on Israeli airports. They rely heavily on profiling and have been extremely successful at keeping their airports secure despite being located in one of the most unstable and constantly threatened places in the world.

While being constantly at or near the of the lists for Human Rights violations worldwide, despite being a First World country.

[polak]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

While being constantly at or near the of the lists for Human Rights violations worldwide, despite being a First World country.

Hardly due to taking extra security steps at their airports

Yeah they should just stick to "random" searches at the entrance point to one of the most volitile places in the world. That's efficient and the inconvinience of being questioned or searched is definitely worth endangering the lives of their citizens for.

[Tinordi]

The "myth" of white privilege.

It's 2013 and we're still arguing that some ethnic and cultural groups have more access, privilege and opportunity than others? Are people still sleepwalking around this issue?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by polak

I don't disagree but using your point and flipping it around, profiling doesn't really effect the person under suspicion all that much if they have nothing to hide. Certianly less then the risk that exists with the bomber being at large.

I really disagree with you on this point. I think that it does.

I recommend checking out some stuff on Israeli airports. They rely heavily on profiling and have been extremely successful at keeping their airports secure despite being located in one of the most unstable and constantly threatened places in the world.

Thanks. This debate has got me quite interested in the subject so I will see what I can learn.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by polak

Hardly due to taking extra security steps at their airports

Yeah they should just stick to "random" searches at the entrance point to one of the most volitile places in the world. That's efficient and the inconvinience of being questioned or searched is definitely worth endangering the lives of their citizens for.

Why not search and question everyone, regardless of their race, if it is just an inconvenience?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

Maybe I'm misreading what's being discussed here, but I don't think anyone disagrees with profiling as it is shown to be an effective tool. I, like many others likely, have no problem with criminal profiling but have a big problem with arm chair detectives attempting the same thing. Law enforcement bodies have extremely sophisticated protocols, science and software making profiling an extremely powerful tool. An arm chair detective has pictures stripped from the internet and some sort of inherent racial bias.

Not only that, but authorities can be held accountable for prejudices resulting in unfair or dangerous assumptions. How do we hold 4chan accountable?

[polak]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Why not search and question everyone, regardless of their race, if it is just an inconvenience?

Cause that takes time and resources?

Why not search everyone that lines the the streets at the marathon?

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by polak

Hardly due to taking extra security steps at their airports

Yeah they should just stick to "random" searches at the entrance point to one of the most volitile places in the world. That's efficient and the inconvinience of being questioned or searched is definitely worth endangering the lives of their citizens for.

I'm sure their 'success' in profiling has nothing to do with being fairly homogeneous.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by polak

Cause that takes time and resources?

Why not search everyone that lines the the streets at the marathon?

The eye rolling is really unnecessary don't you think? It was a legitimate question.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by polak

Cause that takes time and resources?

Why not search everyone that lines the the streets at the marathon?

Right. So, racial profiling is not really about saving lives, its about saving time and resources (almost always for the majority) at the expense of the privacy and dignity of the profilees (surprise, surprise, almost always the minority.)