Edmonton is No Good X: Up and Down Like a Toilet Seat

[undercoverbrother]

There is a lot of talk going on and not enough acknowledging that EDMONTON is NO GOOD

[redmile04]

“We are [seeking compensation]. They have a choice to give us [a pick] over the next three years,” Neely told Comcast's Joe Haggerty.

TSN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun noted that the pick should be a second-round choice and that the Oilers will additionally be forced to surrender a third-round draft pick to San Jose as compensation for Tuesday's hiring of former Sharks coach Todd McLellan.

Have we ever given up compensation for any of the coaches we have hired, as there has been quite a few changes here the last few years.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by redmile04

“We are [seeking compensation]. They have a choice to give us [a pick] over the next three years,” Neely told Comcast's Joe Haggerty.

TSN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun noted that the pick should be a second-round choice and that the Oilers will additionally be forced to surrender a third-round draft pick to San Jose as compensation for Tuesday's hiring of former Sharks coach Todd McLellan.

Have we ever given up compensation for any of the coaches we have hired, as there has been quite a few changes here the last few years.

I think they changed the rules now and teams don't have to give compensation in these situations anymore.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Ah why not, and here's how Ken Holland's time began in Edmonton:

Hired on May 7th, 2019:

July 19th, 2019:
To CGY: Milan Lucic ($750K retained salary), 2021 3rd round pick
To EDM: James Neal

James Neal would go on to play 84 games for the Oilers and put up 41 points before being bought out in 2021. James Neal's buyout will count as $1.917M against the Oilers cap this season as well as next season. Chef's kiss.

Holland then made his mark with this absolute beauty:

February 24, 2020:
To DET: Sam Gagner ($315K retained), 2020 2nd round pick, 2021 2nd round pick
To EDM: Andreas Athanasiou, Ryan Kuffner

Athanasiou would end up playing a whopping 9 regular season games (2 points), and 4 play-in games (0 points) before not being qualified and ultimately signing with the LAK.

I don't know. I can think of few moments in Holland's illustrious Edmonton career which compare to this:

6 August, 2021:
Holland signs Darnell Nurse to an eight-year $74 m contract, which would kick in in the 2022–23 season, and making Nurse the highest paid defenseman in the NHL.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Kopitar played 21:20 ATOI in the 2011-12 season. Is that a huge difference from 22 minutes probably not. But circling back to my original point. Even though Kopitar was playing a lot, the Kings were being carried by Doughty and Quick.

Doughty averaged an insane 24:54 a game.

So yeah, you can totally depend on your top guys to play huge minutes and have team success. But the kings have not always dipped into that well.

Only 7 of Kopitars 17 seasons see him played over 21:00 minutes a night.


McDavid has played that amount 7 of 8 season. That one season being his rookie year.

They over play their top 2 all regular season but it gets even worse in the playofffs I went back through the leading ice forward for both teams that went to the finals since 2014. 0 players have the combination of 18+ mins 5 on 5 and 22+ mins total. McDavid is 18:29 and 23:43 in 2023 and 18:41 and 23:02 in 2022. Leon was 18:36 and 23:08 in 2023 and 16:55 and 21:22 in 2022.

0 players since 2014 have played in the finals with those numbers. Only Verhaeghe played 18+ 5 on 5 and made it to the finals but his total ice was 19:58.

Players that have 17+ and 21+:

MacKinnon in 2022
Karlsson in 2018

Crosby in 2016 and 2017
16:10 and 19:24
16:37 and 20:26

Kopitar in 2014
15:44 and 21:13

Teams just don't win playing 2 guys as much as the Oilers play their top 2.

[dustygoon]

Must be September. Our Oiler posters are in full bloom.

Like any flower bulb trying to emerge in the prairie Autumn, the first cold freeze of winter's harsh reality will sadly render them and their hopes shriveled and forgotten until next year.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Is that true for Kopitar as well?

I get it if McDrai were playing 2 minutes more than everyone else like Kovalchuk was doing in 2013, but we are talking about a difference of 30 seconds or less between them and other players.

Yeah, you've missed the point. It's not how many minutes you're playing, it's how you use them. That's why/how Kopitar has the hardware and McDavid/Draisaitl don't.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Its just weird that you guys have created this idea that players can't play lots of minutes per night effectively.

Kopitar has averaged 21:52 through the playoffs in his career.

If Kopitar was a one dimensional player focused on scoring goals instead of preventing them, you might have a point.

Everyone make a big deal out of minutes played because of the style & focus of those minutes played. It’s the cheating defensively or resting on the ice to attack and exploit offensively. McDavid has “talked” about commitment to defence for years. Talk is cheap. Listen to what people do not what they say.

Great for scoring championships. Not so much for team championships.

97 & 29 do not play anything close to a complete game. They are also cocky about their ability to generate offence, at least DrySaddle . When they are not a complete liability defensively Oiler media rave about them and even vote them for the Selke.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

Yeah, you've missed the point. It's not how many minutes you're playing, it's how you use them. That's why/how Kopitar has the hardware and McDavid/Draisaitl don't.

Ok. So the minutes aren't an issue. Glad we are in agreement.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Ok. So the minutes aren't an issue. Glad we are in agreement.

LOL, I never made that argument... but please keep punching the wind.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

LOL, I never made that argument... but please keep punching the wind.

You just said its not about how many minutes you play. It's in black and white my dude.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

You just said its not about how many minutes you play. It's in black and white my dude.

That's correct. I said it's how they use their minutes... which they use them poorly. I never made an issue of the quantity of minutes. Simply sounds like you're getting defensive for absolutely no reason.

[MrMike]

Don’t forget they traded for Mike Green at that deadline as well, played until the shut down, didn’t come back for the bubble and retired.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

That's correct. I said it's how they use their minutes... which they use them poorly. I never made an issue of the quantity of minutes. Simply sounds like you're getting defensive for absolutely no reason.

The entire discussion was about quantity of minutes.

Nevermind. Carry on.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

There is a lot of talk going on and not enough acknowledging that EDMONTON is NO GOOD

[Macho0978]

Trading has been bad under Holland but drafting and developing is killing the Oilers.

Since McDavid was drafted at 1, if you look at the rest of the 2015 draft til now.

2015:

C Jones
J Marino
E Bear

2016:

Puljujarvi
Desharnais

2017:

Yamamoto
Skimmer

2018:

Bouchard
McLeod

2019:

Broberg

2020:

Holloway

2021-2023

0 career games played from all 3 drafts.

This include anyone that is still on their roster or has 100+ career games.

For forwards Yamamto has the highest PPG with 118 points in 244 career games.

Skinner looks like a legit goalie, just not sure he is a top 15 or top 30 #1 goalie.

Bouchard has good career numbers, but most comes for the #1 PP last year. He was trending to be a 40-point dman at best until Barrie got traded.

The best draft they had in the late rounds was 2015, but they didn't keep any of those players.

They might as well trade draft picks as they just don't seem to find depth players past the 1st round or even with some of the 1st round picks.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

The entire discussion was about quantity of minutes.

Nevermind. Carry on.

Ya, and I'll say it again. Year over year playing McDavid ( Iginla, Kopitar ect...) 22:00 minutes plus is not a sustainable pathway to team success.

How those minutes are used be damned. When it comes down to the nitty gritty it adds up.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

The entire discussion was about quantity of minutes.

Nevermind. Carry on.

Ah, I apologize. I didn’t understand you’re an adult incapable of nuance.

[Ford Prefect]

So what’s the over/under on when all those minutes will give Connorrhea his annual case of snifflemonia? Remembrance Day? Black Friday?

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

So what’s the over/under on when all those minutes will give Connorrhea his annual case of snifflemonia? Remembrance Day? Black Friday?

His allergy to the fans..... has returned.