2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bingo

OK Flash found it ...

Individual production five on five for both players.

With Tkachuk
Bennett 2.18 points/60
Frolik 3.95 points/60

Without Tkachuk
Bennett 1.26 points/60
Frolik 0.72 points/60

Frolik more productive than Bennett on the Tkachuk line. And Frolik more dependent on Tkachuk than Bennett for production.

Can you do the reverse? Tkachuk production 5-5 with either guy?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I'd still take Nichushkin if he could be had. Top six potential is still there. Change scenery and maybe something happens. At worst he's a fast and big bottom six forward.

Nishushkin is a top 6 player or playing in the KHL.

Unless you plan is to give him serious minutes with Johnny, don't bother wasting this roll of the dice.

His chances of success is likely small.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Can you do the reverse? Tkachuk production 5-5 with either guy?

	Min	Pts	Pts/60
All	636	26	2.452830189
Frolik	167	10	3.592814371
Bennett	195	7	2.153846154
Neither	274	9	1.97080292

Very similar as the reverse data ...

Tkachuk is more productive with Frolik
Tkachuk is more productive with Bennett than he is with everyone but Frolik
Frolik has been more dependent than Bennett on Tkachuk

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

Does this also include the 6 empty net points frolik has this year because those truly shouldn't be counting stats in terms of true "production" when it matters.

Saw Bingo's reply, and agree.

That said, he's sealing a win, while on the ice during the most critical defensive time of the game.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bingo

	Min	Pts	Pts/60
All	636	26	2.452830189
Frolik	167	10	3.592814371
Bennett	195	7	2.153846154
Neither	274	9	1.97080292

Very similar as the reverse data ...

Tkachuk is more productive with Frolik
Tkachuk is more productive with Bennett than he is with everyone but Frolik
Frolik has been more dependent than Bennett on Tkachuk

So frolik scores nearly two points more per 60 with tkachuk, and tkachuk scores more than a point more per 60 with frolik than with Bennett.

And the difference between tkwchuk and Bennett and tkachuk and say, czarnik or Neal is -.18 points per 60?

Am I reading this right?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Can you do the reverse? Tkachuk production 5-5 with either guy?

Originally Posted by Bingo

	Min	Pts	Pts/60
All	636	26	2.452830189
Frolik	167	10	3.592814371
Bennett	195	7	2.153846154
Neither	274	9	1.97080292

Very similar as the reverse data ...

Tkachuk is more productive with Frolik
Tkachuk is more productive with Bennett than he is with everyone but Frolik
Frolik has been more dependent than Bennett on Tkachuk

And to me this is key for the Flames balance.

While there are times where Bennett may deserve to play on line 2, it's not in the best interest of the team as a whole and has nothing to do with who is the better player between Frolik and Bennett.

The 2nd line is better with Frolik then it is with Bennett.
The 3rd line is better with Bennett than it is with Frolik.

The way this roster is set up it just needs Bennett to help anchor and be a driver on the 3rd line, opposed to being more of a passenger on line 2. Bennett is better as a line driver, Frolik is better as a line support piece. Think it's simple as that.

Look at Neal with or without Bennett.

Neal + Bennett:
186 Minutes
52.66% CF
60.29% HDCF

Neal w/o Bennett:
401 Minutes
49.59% CF
44.37% HDCF

[Nelson]

I think it's quite clear that Bennett has taken a pretty significant step forward this year. I really think he's underrated. He has actually become a pretty useful player, if not a prolific scorer.

The following comparison between Sam Reinhart and Sam Bennett is interesting. Reinhart plays with better teammates and gets more offensive zone starts but plays against superior competition. Overall, I think the quality of teammates is more important so I'd say Reinhart is playing easier minutes than Bennett.

Thus, I think we can safely say Bennett drives possession better than Reinhart even if Reinhart is an excellent playmaker.

On this chart alone, I like Bennett more than Reinhart.

https://public.tableau.com/shared/D4...play_count=yes

[TheScorpion]

Flames scouting the Sens?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1085680049817337856

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Bingo

	Min	Pts	Pts/60
All	636	26	2.452830189
Frolik	167	10	3.592814371
Bennett	195	7	2.153846154
Neither	274	9	1.97080292

Very similar as the reverse data ...

Tkachuk is more productive with Frolik
Tkachuk is more productive with Bennett than he is with everyone but Frolik
Frolik has been more dependent than Bennett on Tkachuk

Chemistry between players is very key, and that's one thing that jumps out at me from the data being shared. No doubt about it, Frolik has been the best fit for the old 3M line for sure. Some of the data though also suggests that Bennett is the better player between the two (offensively, defensively Frolik is superior) as he can drive more offence when not playing with Chucky and Backs.

I bring that up only to suggest, I think it is understandable why we've seen them try other options than Frolik on that line. There is reason to believe if Chucky and Backs could develop the same chemistry with someone like Bennett that they have with Frolik, they could be a more offensively dynamic line. Sometimes the chemistry is just there, or it just won't be, but we also have to remember the 3M line has had a lot more time together and learn each other than any other combo. But you also can't keep trying to force something indefinitely that simply isn't working as well as something you know works well either.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Flames scouting the Sens?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1085680049817337856

Mark Stone is the only guy Treliving should consider giving up this year's first for. He'd put this team over the top, without question.

[Mattman]

This Frolik and Bennett debate is the majority of the last 4 pages of Trade Rumours and Speculation... With 0 actual rumours and only minimal speculation. Could we move that to a Bennett or Frolik thread?

On the actual topic, I don't think it's a surprise Flames would be scouting Ottawa or Philly but please be cautious Treliving. Seller teams usually are the ones calling the shots and setting the price. I hope we don't over pay.

[Badgers Nose]

Where does our Stone, if he recovers, fit the the D depth chart?

Maybe Flames trade some D kids for OTT players.

And them he slots back in.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Muta

Mark Stone is the only guy Treliving should consider giving up this year's first for. He'd put this team over the top, without question.

1st, Kylington, Mangiapane/Gawdin/Phillips probably gets it done.

Expensive, but I'd pay that price any day for Mark Stone.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Muta

Mark Stone is the only guy Treliving should consider giving up this year's first for. He'd put this team over the top, without question.

I would put Schenn in that category as well but he is not a pure rental

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

1st, Kylington, Mangiapane/Gawdin/Phillips probably gets it done.

Expensive, but I'd pay that price any day for Mark Stone.

Getting Mark Stone is a pipe dream. Stone wants to stay in Ottawa and Senators want him re-signed. It makes no sense for Dorion to give up a proven star young player for picks and prospects. They'll make a deal happen.

Same logic with Duchene, I think.

Not sure if this has been posted already:
https://ottawasun.com/sports/hockey/...d-matt-duchene

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Mattman

This Frolik and Bennett debate is the majority of the last 4 pages of Trade Rumours and Speculation... With 0 actual rumours and only minimal speculation. Could we move that to a Bennett or Frolik thread?

On the actual topic, I don't think it's a surprise Flames would be scouting Ottawa or Philly but please be cautious Treliving. Seller teams usually are the ones calling the shots and setting the price. I hope we don't over pay.

In a buyer’s market, which it’s said to be, the inverse is true. Buyers set the price, sellers decide if they want to meet it, with the risk being that they’ll be left holding the bag if they don’t as there are plenty of other options.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

1st, Kylington, Mangiapane/Gawdin/Phillips probably gets it done.

Expensive, but I'd pay that price any day for Mark Stone.

That’s a lot for a rental, who won’t fit into our cap next year...even if he did want to sign

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

1st, Kylington, Mangiapane/Gawdin/Phillips probably gets it done.



Expensive, but I'd pay that price any day for Mark Stone.

I think someone would beat that personally and I'm not convinced the flames are in a position to go big game hunting with prospects and picks on a rental anyway. If we were to lose in round one after that deal it would be a total disaster.

[Psytic]

Were there to rent Dzingel. Rock bottom cap hit good 2nd line type production. Cheaper than Stone or Duchene.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Getting Mark Stone is a pipe dream. Stone wants to stay in Ottawa and Senators want him re-signed. It makes no sense for Dorion to give up a proven star young player for picks and prospects. They'll make a deal happen.

Same logic with Duchene, I think.

Not sure if this has been posted already:
https://ottawasun.com/sports/hockey/...d-matt-duchene

I think Stone will likely stay as well but I don’t see Duchene signing up for a long term deal on a bad team. He likely hits the market in my opinion.