Vaccines don't cause autism (duh)

[AcGold]

^how do you know what my beliefs are? Seriously, are you so certain we don't have the same position on the matter?

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Move on from what? A thread with the title I agree with?


You came into this thread, trying to stir up ####, got called and now are upset.


Good, perhaps you might review your position on the subject.

what position would that be? I'm upset about nothing, where did I post anything indicative of being upset?

[evman150]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Actually it goes like this; anyone under any circumstances that speaks from a condescending, self-righteous place loses all credibility instantly.

If a professor is walking in front of a class teaching about relativity and he is insulting people for their stupidity in believing Newtonian mechanics he loses all credibility, same thing here. So go ahead with your rhetoric, slander and condescension as it only closes off all forms of communication between parties.

The only people that are going to listen to you are those who already believe you, even if the pro-vaxxers are 110% correct about everything it doesn't matter if they speak with condescension, they are just about as useful as the illiterate. If you can't speak your opinion without the slander then it's not thought out well enough.

If someone says the sun isn't hot explain fusion reactions, thermal energy and radiation. If they disagree then you tried your best, if you start slinging insults then the conversation is over and it's going to become purely bickering.

People want me to post articles but what's the point? Seriously, anything I post will just be torn apart and I'll be insulted, why in the world would I engage in that? Regardless of their legitimacy there's just no point, your minds are already made up.

This post is all sorts of fail. Wow. I think every paragraph has at least one logical fallacy (or at least some fuzzy thinking) in it. That's impressive.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by AcGold

what position would that be? I'm upset about nothing, where did I post anything indicative of being upset?

[strombad]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Actually it goes like this; anyone under any circumstances that speaks from a condescending, self-righteous place loses all credibility instantly.

If a professor is walking in front of a class teaching about relativity and he is insulting people for their stupidity in believing Newtonian mechanics he loses all credibility, same thing here. So go ahead with your rhetoric, slander and condescension as it only closes off all forms of communication between parties.

The only people that are going to listen to you are those who already believe you, even if the pro-vaxxers are 110% correct about everything it doesn't matter if they speak with condescension, they are just about as useful as the illiterate. If you can't speak your opinion without the slander then it's not thought out well enough.

If someone says the sun isn't hot explain fusion reactions, thermal energy and radiation. If they disagree then you tried your best, if you start slinging insults then the conversation is over and it's going to become purely bickering.

People want me to post articles but what's the point? Seriously, anything I post will just be torn apart and I'll be insulted, why in the world would I engage in that? Regardless of their legitimacy there's just no point, your minds are already made up.

That's not actually how credibility works.
But...

Good effort?

Furthermore, why ARE you continually engaging? You yourself repeatedly say it's useless and that you'll just be torn apart and insulted and that our minds are made up (because of science, by the way) so why continue?

[PsYcNeT]

No you see, our minds are made up because we've all been brainwashed by doctors (not REAL doctors like chiropractors, naturopaths and reiki gurus of course) who have been brainwashed by big pharma who have been brainwashed by the lizard NWO cabal who are secretly controlled by the molepeople.

[puffnstuff]

You leave the molepeople out of this. They are a completely misunderstood species with only the best of intentions (enslaving us is for our own good).

[troutman]

Australian court rules against anti-vax Mom in favor of pro-health Dad


http://doubtfulnews.com/2014/04/aust...ro-health-dad/

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

You leave the molepeople out of this. They are a completely misunderstood species with only the best of intentions (enslaving us is for our own good).

And we all know the molepeople are just pawns of the Reptilians.

[Boo Radley]

Originally Posted by AcGold

People want me to post articles but what's the point? Seriously, anything I post will just be torn apart and I'll be insulted, why in the world would I engage in that? Regardless of their legitimacy there's just no point, your minds are already made up.

Welcome to the wonderful world of science (or any debate where providing evidence is required to support your arguments).

I am not sure why you would object to having evidence 'torn apart'. This is the most fundamental aspect of science. To test or criticize data and hypotheses. As a scientist this is the best part of my job.

I agree that attacking the person is counter productive, however, if you want you and your (generally speaking) arguments to be taken seriously provide evidence.

I completely understand that people will have questions about vaccines. They should. As a responsible parent I made sure I understood what vaccines my children will receive and the risks-benefits associated. Both of my kids are vaccinated. There are some people even after all is said and done will still decide for some reason not to vaccinate their children. I get that but still think it is completely wrong in the face of all the evidence. Vaccines are one of the greatest inventions of man-kind.

Here is the problem I have with the anti-vaccine crowd. I do not believe they are debating/arguing in good faith. They should present data that shows cause and effect (vaccines and autism, toxicity etc) and if they do be prepared to have it judged. Likewise, if they ask for data showing the effectiveness, safety of vaccines etc I expect that this data (which there are volumes of) will also be understood, and judged on its merit, and importantly will not be dismissed using logical fallacies (i.e. big pharma, conspiracy theories etc).

The anti-vaccine crowd is presenting a dangerous and completely wrong opinion to the public. They need to be called out for it. If you are a concerned parent asking questions about vaccines I applaud you. But if you are an anti-vaccine type spewing garbage take a hike.

[strombad]

Good little article that just popped up on my feed. Pretty clear and direct statements, with links throughout that backup every bit of evidence noted.

Got questions? Here are your answers:
http://www.iflscience.com/health-and...are-being-lied

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by AcGold

I'm not going to give you a reference from a professor because well I don't want anyone contacting him and telling him to die.

Holy hysterical hyperbolic twaddle. This is such a cop out, and all it means is you don't have a leg to stand on, nor anything to back yourself up on, so you're going to go sit in the garden and eat worms and dither on and on about all the mean internet people.

That, essentially, is your position. Because you certainly don't have one in this thread - maybe in your bedroom, but most definitely not in this thread.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by strombad

Good little article that just popped up on my feed. Pretty clear and direct statements, with links throughout that backup every bit of evidence noted.

Got questions? Here are your answers:
http://www.iflscience.com/health-and...are-being-lied

well what do we have here? An article someone shared with me "refuting" strombad's article. Christ I'm not sure there's enough time in the day to dissect the logical fallacies in this tripe

http://www.livingwhole.org/dear-pare...being-lied-to/

That may be without question the worst thing I've ever read. Just SO excited that a family member shared that. Thankfully the person who did does not have children.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by resalien

well what do we have here? An article someone shared with me "refuting" strombad's article. Christ i'm not sure there's enough time in the day to dissect the logical fallacies in this tripe

http://www.livingwhole.org/dear-pare...being-lied-to/

that may be without question the worst thing i've ever read. Just so excited that a family member shared that. Thankfully the person who did does not have children.

#### #### ####

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

well what do we have here? An article someone shared with me "refuting" strombad's article. Christ I'm not sure there's enough time in the day to dissect the logical fallacies in this tripe

http://www.livingwhole.org/dear-pare...being-lied-to/

That may be without question the worst thing I've ever read. Just SO excited that a family member shared that. Thankfully the person who did does not have children.

It's pretty bad.

The study she cites about the effectiveness of the chicken pox vaccine also outlines how much people are saving by getting it. Essentially, if you get this "Big Pharma" loses out of $5 for every $1 spent. But it's all about profits!

Whooping Cough rates fell to almost non-existent but are at a 50 year high due to a new strain, I mean we're up to at 8 cases in 100,000 rather than 5. Sweet mother Mary & Joseph, clearly it's not working!

I didn't go though the entire article, might tupe up a complete response. But you can't cite your own articles as a source. You need to cote the scientific studies the articles are based on.

Lastly, sometimes she likes the CDC, other times thinks they're lying to us.

Good God, why are people so wilfully blind?

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Livingwhole.org

Here are your real options: increase your child’s chance of getting (and spreading) whooping cough by getting a harmful, ineffective vaccine associated with brain damage (DTP), one that may cause autism and enhances the growth of parapertussis bacteria, which can cause a typically milder strain of whooping cough (DTaP) or makes one an asymptomatic carrier (Tdap). No thanks. I don’t want my child to get pertussis (or give it to anyone else) so I’m running as far away as I can from that vaccine.

Livingwhole.org?

should be

Livingwhore.org

People like this are the reason we need mandatory vaccinations, and potentially sterilization for her

[Muffins]

I read the part: "unsubstantiated, inflammatory media attack on Dr. Wakefield"

and my IQ dropped a couple points.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

well what do we have here? An article someone shared with me "refuting" strombad's article. Christ I'm not sure there's enough time in the day to dissect the logical fallacies in this tripe

http://www.livingwhole.org/dear-pare...being-lied-to/

That may be without question the worst thing I've ever read. Just SO excited that a family member shared that. Thankfully the person who did does not have children.

I weep for people like this, its so utterly sad to have someone be so dead wrong but to even be so arrogantly convinced of their own self while being so monumentally dead wrong.... In this day and age of access to real science, real studies, real information to willfully surround yourself with nonsense takes work and dedication and a great deal of cognitive dissonance.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

well what do we have here? An article someone shared with me "refuting" strombad's article. Christ I'm not sure there's enough time in the day to dissect the logical fallacies in this tripe

http://www.livingwhole.org/dear-pare...being-lied-to/

That may be without question the worst thing I've ever read. Just SO excited that a family member shared that. Thankfully the person who did does not have children.

Jeebus H McGillicutty Christos. Dafookity fook did I just read? Sheer insanity.

I don't even know where to start to try and refute her crap. Aside from a billion links, and some of my own anecdotal evidence that contradicts her/their claims...holy hell. Did anyone read her 'about me' section? It reads like a Clint Hardman resume.

She should just say "I'm all about the 'woo!'" What a lot of claptrap.


We have been bombarded by people like her in the past 3 years, ever since the girl's accident and subsequent diagnosis. Essential oils were going to cure everything, we needed to go gluten free, we needed to drop all dairy and sugar and this and that, we needed to take her to a naturopath and have her put on 873 daily vitamins and supplements, she needed to go on an all avocado diet, we should try the ketogenic diet for her, we needed to get this magic juice or that magic juice, we needed to let someone's pastor come in and lay hands on her and pronounce her healing in "jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus name!!!!" We needed to have the demon of sickness cast from her - it has just been never ending. But WE are the quacks, because we have a wholehearted belief in the benefits of vaxing, and the preventative things like flu and pneumonia shots for her?

Please. Just bloody effering please. Take the 'woo' and blow it out your ear.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Thor

I weep for people like this, its so utterly sad to have someone be so dead wrong but to even be so arrogantly convinced of their own self while being so monumentally dead wrong.... In this day and age of access to real science, real studies, real information to willfully surround yourself with nonsense takes work and dedication and a great deal of cognitive dissonance.

The reader comments after this Chiro discussion are amazing.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...ns/#more-30980

yogalady and SSR MD, get picked apart:

You don’t have an understanding, or a science – you have a religion.

Your “subtle energies” are based solely on unverifiable assertions by gurus who cannot provide objective evidence for the existence of such “energies”

[photon]

Good image to post whenever anyone rants about chemicals.