Israel declares war on Hamas

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Example: See post 7047 for Nage Waza being directly named as a "Genocidal madman"

These guys for years have called me every name imaginable and I always ask them to quote me to justify those names. I am happy to back up what I said or rephrase it better.

I am most definitely not pro war by any means, but unfortunately war is a reality and sometimes not easily avoidable. If discussing current events makes me a genocidal madman or whatever other name they call me, they are demeaning what those words actually mean for those that actually suffered through these types of events. I know a common tactic is to avoid debate by yelling, screaming and calling names, unfortunately we are seeing it on this hockey website as well as universities.

Anyone who comes with legit debate, I am happy to discuss, time and time again. Even after calling me every name in the book.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by blankall

Fair enough. Then take both with a grain of salt. The truth is almost always in the middle.

The truth is there for those that wait for the facts to come out. You can read this thread and find people repeatedly posting things as soon as they find anything that supports their point of view. Most often that is half truths or just flat out wrong.

Repeatedly denying instances of rape, blaming Israel for a missile attack on a hospital with hundreds dead immediately as it was initially reported and ignoring the UNRWA story are just really symptomatic of the dangers of social media. People seem to have a hard time coming to grip with the fact the news isn't quite news anymore. Advertising is what they are after and they will give you what you want if that means more advertising dollars.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Azure

I think the thread has been very emotional for a lot of people, especially those with ties to the region, so there have been a lot of ridiculous personal attacks said. The mods can deal with them however they want, though I do think this thread is sort of an example of why things will likely never get fixed.

Also, you keep saying that Hamas should release the hostages, but you kinda ignore the fact that there are probably a hundred other things Hamas needs to stop doing before they release the hostages, including using civilians as human shields. Which of course they won't, because Hamas is literally doing what they set out to do.

1. Spend years building up military infrastructure among civilian areas, including stealing resources from the people of Gaza to build military infrastructure.

2. Use that military infrastructure, which is specifically hidden among civilian areas to launch attacks against Israel with the goal of getting Israel to retaliate.

3. Once Israel attacks, and Hamas accomplishes its goal of getting civilians killed, use social media and other media outlets to post about the 'horror' of what Israel has done, specifically duping people on social media to spread lies about the attacks before anyone even knows what has happened.

4. Then, on Oct 7th launch some of the most viscous and disgusting attacks on Israel, brutally raping, pillaging and murdering not only Israeli citizens, but also citizens of many other countries, all to get Israel to respond.

5. On Oct 8, resort back to point 3 and repeat again.

What you and many others don't seem to get is that regardless of what Israel will do today tomorrow or even for the next 10 years, Hamas will still continue repeating those 5 steps. Which begs the question, what do you think Israel should do to protect itself against Hamas, specifically knowing that Hamas INTENTIONALLY uses civilians and civilian areas as human shields, with the INTENT of getting them killed in order to further spread their lies and deceit and recruit more people to their cause. Of course you can't answer that question because you can't admit that those 5 steps are going to happen regardless of almost any action by Israel. Hamas has literally been funded to the tune of billions of dollars to accomplish these 5 steps.

So posting 'oh I have said dozens of times Hamas should release the hostages' is pretty disingenuous considering the hostages are likely dead, and that it isn't a solution for any of this outside of giving the poor families some closure.

Israel is known for having one of the best intelligence networks in the world so they probably know exactly where every Hamas leader is hiding. Netanyahu needs to step up to a mic and put every country on notice who are harbouring these savages that we're coming for them, if you want to go to war to protect them so be it, but we're coming and you shouldn't be close by.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Israel is known for having one of the best intelligence networks in the world so they probably know exactly where every Hamas leader is hiding. Netanyahu needs to step up to a mic and put every country on notice who are harbouring these savages that we're coming for them, if you want to go to war to protect them so be it, but we're coming and you shouldn't be close by.

This is completely unhinged.

A governments job is to keep it's people safe, not to commit to neverending blood feuds, picking fights and making enemies for the sake of revenge.

I was about to say theyre not the mob, but even organized crime gangs generally avoid cycles of violence and try to steer away from escalations.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

These guys for years have called me every name imaginable and I always ask them to quote me to justify those names. I am happy to back up what I said or rephrase it better.

I knew this would trigger your pathetic victim complex.

You. Who has for year been throwing the word antisemite at everyone and anyone that dares to criticize Israel and its supporters barbaric actions.

You who have failed to show the slightest bit of humanity or empathy for the slaughter of tens of thousands. The maiming of more. And the lifetime trauma inflicted on a whole population.

You, who go one step further and try and defend and excuse it. Will blow off the beheading of babies. The burning alive of babies as ALL Hamas fault.

You're full of hate. You and Azure. UNRWA. UNRWA. UNRWA. Anything UNRWA to try and justify the deliberate mass starvation of a whole population.

Post #7050 nailed it.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Israel is known for having one of the best intelligence networks in the world so they probably know exactly where every Hamas leader is hiding. Netanyahu needs to step up to a mic and put every country on notice who are harbouring these savages that we're coming for them, if you want to go to war to protect them so be it, but we're coming and you shouldn't be close by.

And Mossad clearly has no issues with exploiting the vilest side of humanity in order to accomplish their goals. (see likely Epstein involvement).

However, I don't know if this is 100% true that Israel knows everything, because they just invaded Rafah and discovered 50+ tunnels leading into Egypt. Well Israel says 50, so lets half that number and say 25 tunnels.

In other words I think the billions that Hamas has gotten over the years has been up more backend military infrastructure than we or Israel realizes, and that the rot clearly goes higher up the chain in countries like Egypt than Egypt is ever going to admit publicly.

Think about it. Egypt is constantly fortifying their above ground border with Gaza, but below the ground there are dozens of tunnels running back and forth.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

The truth is there for those that wait for the facts to come out. You can read this thread and find people repeatedly posting things as soon as they find anything that supports their point of view. Most often that is half truths or just flat out wrong.

Like these. Regarding the fabricated meritless Israeli accusations against UNRWA?

Originally Posted by Azure

Keeps getting better and better.

Originally Posted by Azure

The evidence must be overwhelming at this point.

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

I guess that’s why our government should not be sending money to organizations like UNRWA, since we have known for years that they have been linked directly to Hamasunnel money to terrorist like Hamas.

Originally Posted by Azure

lol, shocking that you wouldn't believe that UNRWA has been corrupt for years, and that going back previous to 2010, there were tons of concerns about where the money was going.

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

and ignoring the UNRWA story

What UNRWA story?
The one that was presented by Israel. Had an extensive independent investigation and was found to be completely baseless?
But I'm sure you have your own indoctrinated version of a story somewhere.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

These guys for years have called me every name imaginable and I always ask them to quote me to justify those names. I am happy to back up what I said or rephrase it better.

I am most definitely not pro war by any means, but unfortunately war is a reality and sometimes not easily avoidable. If discussing current events makes me a genocidal madman or whatever other name they call me, they are demeaning what those words actually mean for those that actually suffered through these types of events. I know a common tactic is to avoid debate by yelling, screaming and calling names, unfortunately we are seeing it on this hockey website as well as universities.

Anyone who comes with legit debate, I am happy to discuss, time and time again. Even after calling me every name in the book.

You’re the guy who just finished freaking out about referring to UN Watch in their own words (and conveniently dropped the “debate” when pointed out) after basically an entire posting history of spreading Israeli propaganda and suggesting someone is an anti-semite every second post, right?

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Itse

I was about to say theyre not the mob, but even organized crime gangs generally avoid cycles of violence and try to steer away from escalations.

Not the mob? Engaged mob like behavior.

Efforts by Israel’s intelligence agencies to undermine and influence the international criminal court (ICC) could amount to “offences against the administration of justice” and should be investigated by its chief prosecutor, legal experts have said.

Responding to revelations about Israeli surveillance and espionage operations against the ICC, multiple leading international law experts said the conduct of Israeli intelligence services could amount to criminal offences.

The disclosures about Israel’s nine-year campaign against the court were published on Tuesday as part of a joint investigation by the Guardian, the Israeli-Palestinian publication +972 Magazine and the Hebrew-language outlet Local Call. It details how the country’s intelligence agencies were deployed to surveil, hack, put pressure on, smear and allegedly threaten senior ICC staff.

The ICC’s prosecutor, Karim Khan, last week announced he was seeking arrest warrants for war crimes and crimes against humanity for Hamas and Israeli leaders. The decision to seek warrants against Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, and defence minister, Yoav Gallant, were the first time an ICC prosecutor had taken action against the leaders of a close western ally.

Before Tuesday’s revelations, Khan had alleged that unspecified attempts to “impede, intimidate or improperly influence the officials of this court” had already been made by unnamed parties. Such conduct could constitute a criminal offence under article 70 of the court’s founding statute relating to the administration of justice.

Toby Cadman, a British barrister specialising in international criminal and humanitarian law, said the Guardian’s findings were “deeply disturbing” and include allegations that “constitute an attempt to pervert the course of justice through the use of threats” to the former ICC prosecutor Fatou Bensouda.

“It is quite clear that these are matters that fall within the jurisdiction of the ICC, in particular under article 70 of the statute. Any person who has attempted to obstruct the independent investigations of the prosecutor must face the consequences,” Cadman said.

Longtime observers of the ICC said Israel’s actions warranted further investigation. Matt Cannock, the head of Amnesty International’s centre for international justice in The Hague, said: “It is abundantly clear that many of the examples highlighted in the reporting would amount to [article 70 offences]. Such charges should be brought against anyone who has sought to impede, intimidate or corruptly influence the ICC’s officials.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ar...-legal-experts

[starseed]

Originally Posted by Beninho

https://mo-husseini.medium.com/50-co...s-1ce672087b28

Think some people on here should give this a read

1-49 should be the foundation for any discussion on this topic. #50 is just evil self absorbed nonsense

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Like these. Regarding the fabricated meritless Israeli accusations against UNRWA?

What UNRWA story?
The one that was presented by Israel. Had an extensive independent investigation and was found to be completely baseless?
But I'm sure you have your own indoctrinated version of a story somewhere.

You misquoted my post. But nonetheless, you do know that Canada cut funding to UNRWA for like 6 years because of ties to Hamas. Between 2010 and 2016 (about).

There have been allegations of Hamas / UNRWA ties going back at least to 2010. That is what I was referencing with my post.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Itse

This is completely unhinged.

A governments job is to keep it's people safe, not to commit to neverending blood feuds, picking fights and making enemies for the sake of revenge.

I was about to say theyre not the mob, but even organized crime gangs generally avoid cycles of violence and try to steer away from escalations.

I would think that precision hits on high ranking Hamas would be a good thing, wouldn’t it?

I don’t believe that Hamas has any desire to exist peacefully with Israel. Eliminating Hamas could stop the cycle of violence, keeping both Palestinians and people in Israel safer.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

You misquoted my post. But nonetheless, you do know that Canada cut funding to UNRWA for like 6 years because of ties to Hamas. Between 2010 and 2016 (about).

There have been allegations of Hamas / UNRWA ties going back at least to 2010. That is what I was referencing with my post.

Except you weren't alleging anything. You were presenting it as fact.

Even going so far as to partially blame Canada for the civilian deaths. For indirectly funding Hamas.

There was nothing alleged about your post. But nice squirmy try.

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

I guess that’s why our government should not be sending money to organizations like UNRWA, since we have known for years that they have been linked directly to Hamas.

If there is blame to be spread around for the thousands of civilian casualties here, part of the blame falls to those who indirectly fund these organizations that funnel money to terrorist like Hamas. Unfortunately, Canada is one of them.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by starseed

1-49 should be the foundation for any discussion on this topic. #50 is just evil self absorbed nonsense

I think they literally meant Hummus...not hamas.

[starseed]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

I think they literally meant Hummus...not hamas.

It is Syrian. The Palestinians have no legitimate claim to it's origins.

His statement was an outrageous lie and exposed him as a fraud that cannot be trusted.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Except you weren't alleging anything. You were presenting it as fact.

Even going so far as to partially blame Canada for the civilian deaths. For indirectly funding Hamas.

There was nothing alleged about your post. But nice squirmy try.

Ok

I’m sure Canadian intelligence knew about the UNRWA / Hamas ties. That’s why they cut funding.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Ok

I’m sure Canadian intelligence knew about the UNRWA / Hamas ties. That’s why they cut funding.

You just can't stop. "Alleged" Hamas ties.

I'm sure they must have went then later. Oops. Actually there see no ties. Resume the funding.

Or, are you implying that the Canadian government is funding UNRWA despite having in its possession evidence of as you keep saying UNRWA/Hamas ties.

Can you present the evidence?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

You misquoted my post. But nonetheless, you do know that Canada cut funding to UNRWA for like 6 years because of ties to Hamas. Between 2010 and 2016 (about).

There have been allegations of Hamas / UNRWA ties going back at least to 2010. That is what I was referencing with my post.

Do you have a source for this?

This report states that the only years that Canada did not contribute to UNRWA were from 2013 to 2015 (so three years). I haven't been able to find anything suggesting the rationale for the lack of funding during those years.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

The truth is there for those that wait for the facts to come out. You can read this thread and find people repeatedly posting things as soon as they find anything that supports their point of view. Most often that is half truths or just flat out wrong.

Repeatedly denying instances of rape, blaming Israel for a missile attack on a hospital with hundreds dead immediately as it was initially reported and ignoring the UNRWA story are just really symptomatic of the dangers of social media. People seem to have a hard time coming to grip with the fact the news isn't quite news anymore. Advertising is what they are after and they will give you what you want if that means more advertising dollars.

Maybe on other parts of the internet, but I haven't seen any here. All I've seen is folks agree that it is disgusting and horrible. To me, Rape is the worst part of war. Just breaks my heart to think about.

Still, I don't think that the appropriate response to rape is dropping 70,000 tons of bombs on 6,020 square kilometres.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Maybe on other parts of the internet, but I haven't seen any here. All I've seen is folks agree that it is disgusting and horrible. To me, Rape is the worst part of war. Just breaks my heart to think about.

Still, I don't think that the appropriate response to rape is dropping 70,000 tons of bombs on 6,020 square kilometres.

Not the hypocrisy?