Submarine Tour to Titanic Missing

[devo22]

he does sound like a lovely chap in the email exchange which was revealed by the BBC as well.

In messages seen by the BBC, Rob McCallum told OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush that he was potentially putting his clients at risk and urged him to stop using the sub until it had been classified by an independent body.

Mr Rush responded that he was "tired of industry players who try to use a safety argument to stop innovation".

The tense exchange ended after OceanGate's lawyers threatened legal action, Mr McCallum said.

"I think you are potentially placing yourself and your clients in a dangerous dynamic," he wrote to the OceanGate boss in March 2018. "In your race to Titanic you are mirroring that famous catch cry: 'She is unsinkable'".

In the messages, Mr Rush, who was among five passengers who died when the Titan experienced what officials believe was a "catastrophic implosion" on Sunday, expresses frustration with the criticism of Titan's safety measures.

"We have heard the baseless cries of 'you are going to kill someone' way too often," he wrote. "I take this as a serious personal insult."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65998914

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

edit: wait wait wait..... Rush had an aerospace engineering degree?!?!!?!?

No doubt that he was a good engineer. Most people could not jerry rig a submersible to get down to that depth even once, but even smart people can be incredibly foolish and narcissistic.

There was a lot of talk about how these people didn't do something stupid because they were "explorers" taking "calculated risks", but it goes to show that being book smart doesn't mean they can properly calculate risk.

I don't blame all the passengers because it sounds like Rush really downplayed the risks making it difficult for them to make a proper calculation. They probably could have done more due diligence, but when the CEO is going down as well, it would kind of make you think it must be safe.

The weird one for me is the French dude that was on there. Everything I read about him, it sounds like he should have known better. I wonder if his age (77) combined with his obsession with the Titanic meant that he actually knew the risks and just didn't care.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Can't imagine being near the bottom of 4km of water and hearing the carbon fibre strands snapping like guitar strings.

You wouldn't. When it goes, it goes to the effect of dropping a grand piano on an aluminum can. You would possibly have milliseconds, which would not even be enough to realize or process what just killed you.

With all the noise about the waivers and how this was well communicated that this was a dangerous, experimental submersible, the one question I ask is, if it were truly an experimental sub, why exactly are they charging prices that reflect that of a highly engineered and scrutinized operation/vehicle?

It is a sad situation, but again one where someone thinks they are smarter than everyone else in the room. As James Cameron said, the parallels of ignorance to this incident and the actual sinking of the titanic are shocking.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

No doubt that he was a good engineer. Most people could not jerry rig a submersible to get down to that depth even once, but even smart people can be incredibly foolish and narcissistic.

There was a lot of talk about how these people didn't do something stupid because they were "explorers" taking "calculated risks", but it goes to show that being book smart doesn't mean they can properly calculate risk.

I don't blame all the passengers because it sounds like Rush really downplayed the risks making it difficult for them to make a proper calculation. They probably could have done more due diligence, but when the CEO is going down as well, it would kind of make you think it must be safe.

The weird one for me is the French dude that was on there. Everything I read about him, it sounds like he should have known better. I wonder if his age (77) combined with his obsession with the Titanic meant that he actually knew the risks and just didn't care.

My take is that French guy was finally convinced to go down after being quite critical of the vehicle. This may very well have been why Rush was on this particular trip too.

There's a big reason most ships and vessels are not made solely of carbon fibre - which can be incredibly strong in many circumstances. It has very mediocre compressive strength....A small ding or nick could compromise the entire structure at these pressures, maybe even something that is entirely unnoticeable.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

You wouldn't. When it goes, it goes to the effect of dropping a grand piano on an aluminum can. You would possibly have milliseconds, which would not even be enough to realize or process what just killed you.

With all the noise about the waivers and how this was well communicated that this was a dangerous, experimental submersible, the one question I ask is, if it were truly an experimental sub, why exactly are they charging prices that reflect that of a highly engineered and scrutinized operation/vehicle?

It is a sad situation, but again one where someone thinks they are smarter than everyone else in the room. As James Cameron said, the parallels of ignorance to this incident and the actual sinking of the titanic are shocking.

I can't say I understand all they physics involved. Would it only take 1 carbon fiber bond to snap for the capsule to instantly implode? From what I gathered from online forums and video, when a carbon fiber bond breaks, it make an audible tapping or thud sound, and one may not have been enough to collapse the vessel.

[D as in David]

Will people start getting nervous about flying Boeing 787 Dreamliners? I remember hearing some concerns about this early on in design but I have no idea how those concerns were put to rest.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Will people start getting nervous about flying Boeing 787 Dreamliners? I remember hearing some concerns about this early on in design but I have no idea how those concerns were put to rest.

There are a few differnces:
1) Airliners are subject to internal pressure, something that carbon fiber is much better suited for
2) Boeing/airlines aren't stupid asses who don't test their products, and don't ignore things like service life and maintenance.

Of course, some people might still be worried, but I suspect most people don't know what 787s are made out of.
I'm not too concerned.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Will people start getting nervous about flying Boeing 787 Dreamliners? I remember hearing some concerns about this early on in design but I have no idea how those concerns were put to rest.

As long as it stays out of the ocean I won't have any worry about it.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally Posted by Minnie

Saw a snippet of an interview with some expert or the other, who said that the implosion would take 2 nanoseconds, and the human body/spine doesn't register anything until 4 nanoseconds. So they were just there - and then they weren't, and they would have had zero inkling. Just...vapourized.

A beam of light would only travel about 60 centimeters in 2 nanoseconds...so, no...the implosion took significantly longer than that. When conditions are as extreme as this, oftentimes even someone touted as an expert will spout some wildly inaccurate "big" number (or small, as in this case) to give people a sense of how extreme things were. But even those should be sanity checked.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

A beam of light would only travel about 60 centimeters in 2 nanoseconds...so, no...the implosion took significantly longer than that. When conditions are as extreme as this, oftentimes even someone touted as an expert will spout some wildly inaccurate "big" number (or small, as in this case) to give people a sense of how extreme things were. But even those should be sanity checked.

Several experts have said it likely happened in a millisecond. What are you basing your statement from?

[opendoor]

I think Minnie (or the person on TV) had mixed up milliseconds and nanoseconds. A millisecond is 1,000,000 nanoseconds.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

A beam of light would only travel about 60 centimeters in 2 nanoseconds...so, no...the implosion took significantly longer than that. When conditions are as extreme as this, oftentimes even someone touted as an expert will spout some wildly inaccurate "big" number (or small, as in this case) to give people a sense of how extreme things were. But even those should be sanity checked.

I'll see if I can find it again but I thought it might have been the guy interviewed along with Cameron.

[Cube Inmate]

Milliseconds I could believe.

[Minnie]

I can't be certain, but I think it was G. Michael Harris. It was just a quick snippet from an interview, I recall the interviewer being a woman. He sounded pretty raw, and if it was Harris, he knew Nargeolet pretty well, from what I understand - so if it was just after getting confirmation of the implosion, in his grief, maybe he mixed up or maybe he thought he was comforting people who thought they'd have felt pain.

[Ferarri]

At some level I feel bad for those that bought into Rush's sales pitch. I get that everyone is accountable for the risks they take and this was ill advised from the get-go but I'm sure his influence was very persuasive being that he was an aerospace engineer who had navigated this trip before.

He had the background to know that this was dangerous and chose to ignore other experts in the field when they questioned the integrity and materials used. His emails denouncing safety proved that his pursuit of glory and self gratification overshadowed the safety component of adventure.

I think most logical people would have stayed far far away from the Titan based on the fact that it wasn't certified and experts questioned the durability. So at the end of the day the other victims accepted this risk and signed numerous waivers indicating that they could die but I wonder how much influence Rush had in their decision making process. From a credentials standpoint he seems highly qualified. Again not trying to dismiss the responsibility of the other passengers to assess the risk and do due diligence but I fear his sales pitch backed with legitimate credentials probably persuaded others to make a stupid and dangerous decision.

The saddest part of this whole story is the young man who lost his life even though he was terrified of the trip. Sadly he didn't want to disappoint his Dad on Father's day and it ended up costing him his life. Tragedy all around but all signs point to Rush as being the person most responsible for this avoidable tragedy.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

There are a few differnces:
1) Airliners are subject to internal pressure, something that carbon fiber is much better suited for
2) Boeing/airlines aren't stupid asses who don't test their products, and don't ignore things like service life and maintenance.

Of course, some people might still be worried, but I suspect most people don't know what 787s are made out of.
I'm not too concerned.

Well....not always...

history of the aircraft manufacturer company Boeing that led to the crashes of Lion Air Flight 610 and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302, both involving the Boeing 737 MAX and occurring within a short time span, as well as its subsequent investigation. The film sides with interviewees in criticizing the capitalization of Boeing, noting that the urge to beat major competitor Airbus led to the neglect of component failures within the 737 MAX.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downfa...Against_Boeing

[mrkajz44]

edit: never mind - several posts behind

[White Out 403]

This sure seems like negligence approaching manslaughter to me for this prick

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

This sure seems like negligence approaching manslaughter to me for this prick

Well…he’s dead…so hard to prosecute him…

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Locke

Well....not always...



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downfa...Against_Boeing

Point taken.