2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[SeanCharles]

I will be beyond pissed if we sign Kadri given his ask.

If Johnny leaves and you can’t get anything significant for him and/or sign Forsberg we need to tear this thing down and rebuild.

[shutout]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Don't make the mistake of paying his retirement contract.

But everybody is okay paying johnies retirement contract.
Nature of playing in the ufa market.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by shutout

But everybody is okay paying johnies retirement contract.
Nature of playing in the ufa market.

It’s a completely different tier of player.

Gaudreau: 609 points in 602 games
Kadri: 512 points in 739 games

[1qqaaz]

Would you prefer Vincent Trocheck over Kadri?

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

It’s a completely different tier of player.

Gaudreau: 609 points in 602 games
Kadri: 512 points in 739 games

4-5 years younger as well.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Would you prefer Vincent Trocheck over Kadri?

Yes, 100% yes.

But also…if Johnny is gone, neither. 100% neither.

[Moneyhands23]

I'd prefer a rebuild...but BT will ask us to trust "the process" what a joke

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

4-5 years younger as well.

Less than 3 years difference in age. Kadri is an old 2009 pick and Johnny is a relatively young 2011 pick

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

I'd prefer a rebuild...but BT will ask us to trust "the process" what a joke

Calling something that hasn’t happened a joke like you are mad?

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

I'd prefer a rebuild...but BT will ask us to trust "the process" what a joke

I think people need to realize there's a reason we haven't seen a full blown re-build from the Flames (intentional rebuild) in almost 30 years. Very unlikely BTs mandate will be do to full blown rebuild even if Johnny walks, so not sure that's something we can critique him for.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yes, 100% yes.

But also…if Johnny is gone, neither. 100% neither.

Technically signing Trochek would give the flames a chip they could flip when the rebuild does begin

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I think people need to realize there's a reason we haven't seen a full blown re-build from the Flames (intentional rebuild) in almost 30 years. Very unlikely BTs mandate will be do to full blown rebuild even if Johnny walks, so not sure that's something we can critique him for.

Flames intentionally rebuilt starting in 2013. They allegedly turned down a package for Seguin at that draft because they wanted a rebuild. They drafted with their own picks in the top 6 3 times and made a retooling trade in 2018 that landed them 2 top 5 picks from 13 and 15.

What is a full blown rebuild and which team has done it?

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Flames intentionally rebuilt starting in 2013. They allegedly turned down a package for Seguin at that draft because they wanted a rebuild. They drafted with their own picks in the top 6 3 times and made a retooling trade in 2018 that landed them 2 top 5 picks from 13 and 15.

What is a full blown rebuild and which team has done it?

I don't think the Flames intentionally rebuilt in 2013. I think they were forced into that situation. The Feaster years prior to that, when it was obvious that version of the Flames the Iginla / Kipper Core weren't going to get it done, was full of tinkering and attempting to make the playoffs between 2010 and 2013. True, we moved on from some of those players once contracts started to expire or near expiry, but IMO that was a forced hand once runway ran out on those contracts (i.e. they were expiring)

Even after that, I would say many of BTs first moves from that point on didn't ring with a "true rebuild". They were ice as competitive team as possible while we build up type move. Some of the veteran contracts he brought in, which I know, you could argue you need some vets not only to fill out a roster, but to help develop the new team members, still didn't feel like scorched earth, let's finish as low as possible moves.

Maybe I'm wrong, but to me that felt like we had to rebuild because our tinkering failed and contracts expired, versus an ok, let's pick as high as possible for the next few years and turn this around.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Would you prefer Vincent Trocheck over Kadri?

Trocheck is the kind of second tier UFA that will probably get grossly overpaid. Not that he's bad but just not the kind of guy you want to be throwing UFA money at. Nor the contract length that he'll get.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Calling something that hasn’t happened a joke like you are mad?

It's more the old trust the process comments. It's his go to, and the process or his plan just seem to be erratic and to this point have yielded no consistency

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Trocheck is the kind of second tier UFA that will probably get grossly overpaid. Not that he's bad but just not the kind of guy you want to be throwing UFA money at. Nor the contract length that he'll get.

This is the key to the entire summer. You cannot build a team on mid-tier free agents. You should generally *never* sign mid-tier free agents, regardless of where your team is. You overpay for them and it hurts the cap structure of your team. It’s better to overpay in the trade market for a player with term (like Tampa did with Coleman) than overpay that type of player in free agency.

Championship quality teams prove this every damn season. Their free agent signings are usually thrifty, their trades are aggressive, and their core pieces are usually homegrown top-end picks.

[1qqaaz]

Yes, the key top being an elite team, beyond anything else, is cap efficiency. McDonough is good, but he's not cap efficient. That's why he's gone.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

This is the key to the entire summer. You cannot build a team on mid-tier free agents. You should generally *never* sign mid-tier free agents, regardless of where your team is. You overpay for them and it hurts the cap structure of your team. It’s better to overpay in the trade market for a player with term (like Tampa did with Coleman) than overpay that type of player in free agency.

Championship quality teams prove this every damn season. Their free agent signings are usually thrifty, their trades are aggressive, and their core pieces are usually homegrown top-end picks.

This is where the bad luck started.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

It's more the old trust the process comments. It's his go to, and the process or his plan just seem to be erratic and to this point have yielded no consistency

He’s only actually said that about hiring a coach.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I don't think the Flames intentionally rebuilt in 2013. I think they were forced into that situation. The Feaster years prior to that, when it was obvious that version of the Flames the Iginla / Kipper Core weren't going to get it done, was full of tinkering and attempting to make the playoffs between 2010 and 2013. True, we moved on from some of those players once contracts started to expire or near expiry, but IMO that was a forced hand once runway ran out on those contracts (i.e. they were expiring)

Even after that, I would say many of BTs first moves from that point on didn't ring with a "true rebuild". They were ice as competitive team as possible while we build up type move. Some of the veteran contracts he brought in, which I know, you could argue you need some vets not only to fill out a roster, but to help develop the new team members, still didn't feel like scorched earth, let's finish as low as possible moves.

Maybe I'm wrong, but to me that felt like we had to rebuild because our tinkering failed and contracts expired, versus an ok, let's pick as high as possible for the next few years and turn this around.

I agree they were forced into it in 2013 and were 2 years too late on that but forced or not they decided to turn over the team and aimed to pick high.

I think it is pretty risky to be really bad on purpose for longer than you need to especially in a market like this. Due to some savvy deals the Flames had 5 players picked in the top 6 over 4 drafts and also were fortunate to hit on some mid-late round picks.

When you look at their roster 2/3 of the top line and second line were players drafted by the team with another couple of guys in the bottom 6. 2 of their top 4 D were also drafted by the team and another was a 5th overall pick acquired at 21.

Forced to rebuild or not they took the approach to draft high for a few years and at the time they started to push forward they had Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, Hamilton, Tkachuk as their young core. A couple years later they step back and turn a prospect who doesn’t want to sign a 25 year old and 27 year old and turned them into former 5th overalls who were 23 and 21 at the time.

You play in a $hit market like Calgary it gets very risky to try and have an extended period of sucking. Edmonton picked top 10 11 of 13 years and only 7 years after they picked a once in a generation type player do they look like a team that can contend for a little while. Buffalo has picked high for a decade and still not out of the woods yet.

What is a proper rebuild? 5 years of high picks? 10?