Occupy Calgary/Do Not Merge

[Regular_John]

Alright I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

If these protesters want "change" I'll play ball, but I'm going to support organizations that are working towards change in this city rather than waiting for it to happen.

I'll personally donate $100 ($50 & $50) to The Interfaith Foodbank & The Mustard Seed TODAY if these guys leave the plaza.

@jaydorn
Jason Dorn
If the #OccupyCalgary campers leave the plaza today I'll donate $50 to the @CalgaryFoodBank and $50 to @mustardseedyyc anyone else with me?

Why? I'm sick of seeing photos like this:



Undermining actual charity/non-profit groups for your 15 minutes? That's deplorable to me.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by transplant99

No they didn't.

They had a very clear and concise message that was easy to either agree or disagree with, which in turn allowed it to grow into a massive movement because the message itself was one many shared.

What is this groups message? What do they want done about it? It's been said repeatedly since this whole farcical thing began.....they have a problem with their government apparently and the laws that govern capitalism and wealth distribution, but thats not who they target. Instead they want to "make if more fair for everyone"...what the hell does that even mean?

A few pages back we had this disscussion and yes there where numerous organizations and messages all trying to hitch their wagon to a movement at the beginning. Their was everything from anti Macarthy to no nukes it was a mess of competing messages but eventually one message was the unifying force. We don't know if this group will find one or fade away. I will reserve my judgement for now.

I have no idea where this will go nor do I think it is on par with the peak of the Nam protests but every protest starts with one person.

I think my biggest issue is with the comments generalizing a group of people looking to practise democracy. I am guilty of doing it with the Tea Party this summer too.

What I am going to do this weekend is go down there. I may not agree with a lot of them but I am going to give them a shot and decide for myself. I may walk away shaking my head, grab a sign or a hot dog from a cart then get in my luxury sedan and drive home.

They may be a bunch of unwashed tools to some but in some way they are practising democracy more than I and perhaps a lot of you have in our lifetime.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Nenshi's approach is bang on. If this was July he'd probably be handling it different, but in two weeks it could be -20 and they'll be gone. There is no reason whatsoever for a conflict with these r-tards and I think it undermines their dopey non-message even more by basically ignoring them.

I totally agree. OccupyCalgary is proving nothing by hosting a bunch of homeless people in the park and dopey children at Olympic Plaza (I made the trip to Olympic Plaza and found basically what amounts to total full-blown communists, frosh post-secondary students still hormonal after reading Naomi Klein for the first time, or sophmore post-secondary students who have moved on to reading Chomsky). Their presence should be ignored by the press and the mayor should just keep on handing out bylaw tickets and sending the police to check up on them and maintain a presence until winter weather arrives and the movement dies a slow death. The last thing Nenshi needs to do is give them an outlet to their message by forcibly removing them and forcing the story back into the news.

McIver is a total hack talking about cracking skulls. Basically just an off the cuff comment unconstrained by actually being accountable to an elected office aimed at the Calgary Sun crowd.

FWIW I'm not really a Nenshi supporter but I agree with how this was handled.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

I totally agree. OccupyCalgary is proving nothing by hosting a bunch of homeless people in the park and dopey children at Olympic Plaza (I made the trip to Olympic Plaza and found basically what amounts to total full-blown communists, frosh post-secondary students still hormonal after reading Naomi Klein for the first time, or sophmore post-secondary students who have moved on to reading Chomsky). Their presence should be ignored by the press and the mayor should just keep on handing out bylaw tickets and sending the police to check up on them and maintain a presence until winter weather arrives and the movement dies a slow death. The last thing Nenshi needs to do is give them an outlet to their message by forcibly removing them and forcing the story back into the news.

McIver is a total hack talking about cracking skulls. Basically just an off the cuff comment unconstrained by actually being accountable to an elected office aimed at the Calgary Sun crowd.

FWIW I'm not really a Nenshi supporter but I agree with how this was handled.

I am glad to see an opinion based on actual experience. Support or non support neither is wrong as our democracy is practised one opinion at a time.

We may laugh at some of these people for their appearance but their vote has as much power as my own.

[anyonebutedmonton]

Seebass, I can see your point that these people are practicing democracy. My problem is that they are breaking the law to do it. The camping aspect is what irks me, not the protesting. They are deciding that their "issue" is somehow greater than respecting other people's rights.

[CaptainCrunch]

I did get into an exchange with one occupyer on line and I did make a trip down there on the weekend because I was curious about the effect on the Muslim festival.

How can you say that they're practicing democracy when the ones that I talked to didn't vote in the last federal or municipal election?

That is not practicing democracy.

And the one that I talked to on had no clue about regulatory rules and social welfare rules yet he was protesting against them. How is that effective protesting.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by anyonebutedmonton

Seebass, I can see your point that these people are practicing democracy. My problem is that they are breaking the law to do it. The camping aspect is what irks me, not the protesting. They are deciding that their "issue" is somehow greater than respecting other people's rights.

My biggest beef is they have no endgame. And they refuse to set a goal because it would undermine their position?

@tawnee7
many demanding #occupycalgary have clearer demands. Etching in stone would be downfall. Isn't it enough to say we"ve woken from dreams.

So their just gonna camp until the end of time because life's not fair?

So you don't know what you want, you don't think it's important to decide what you want. But you're not leaving until you get it?

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by anyonebutedmonton

Seebass, I can see your point that these people are practicing democracy. My problem is that they are breaking the law to do it. The camping aspect is what irks me, not the protesting. They are deciding that their "issue" is somehow greater than respecting other people's rights.

That is a fair point and I agree.

I was thinking that maybe what a democratic nation needs is a park or square that people can gather freely anytime and perhaps yell,hold signs,have sit ins, or march. This could be maintained like a city park with facilities and other esentials.
Maybe if there is an option like this it would help get rid of the "just sticking it to the man cause I am defying the goverment" crowd. Yeah my tax dollars will pay for it but I bet an annual budget to run a facility like this would be cheaper than a spiked expense when protests just happen and cities scramble and pay top dollar to avoid poor optics.

Just kicking around ideas here and I would assume that there are a ton of cons to this idea too. It would probably just turn into a homelss square though.

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

A few pages back we had this disscussion and yes there where numerous organizations and messages all trying to hitch their wagon to a movement at the beginning. Their was everything from anti Macarthy to no nukes it was a mess of competing messages but eventually one message was the unifying force. We don't know if this group will find one or fade away. I will reserve my judgement for now.

I have no idea where this will go nor do I think it is on par with the peak of the Nam protests but every protest starts with one person.

I think my biggest issue is with the comments generalizing a group of people looking to practise democracy. I am guilty of doing it with the Tea Party this summer too.

What I am going to do this weekend is go down there. I may not agree with a lot of them but I am going to give them a shot and decide for myself. I may walk away shaking my head, grab a sign or a hot dog from a cart then get in my luxury sedan and drive home.

They may be a bunch of unwashed tools to some but in some way they are practising democracy more than I and perhaps a lot of you have in our lifetime.

I have a problem with this comment. I believe that the political discourse and sharing of political opinion, the changing of minds in some cases, and even the encouragement to vote or become politically active in a campaign - all of this on CalPuck, no less - is far more active participation in democracy than what you're seeing at Olympic Plaza / St. Patrick's Island.

Why confuse civil disobedience with active participation in democracy? If you changed "democracy" to "freedom of assembly", you may be correct in your statement. But democracy, no. Democracy enables freedom of assembly and freedom of assembly may support democracy by voicing the will of the people. But there is no discernible voice, the people are representative of no obvious or coherent cause, and the majority which are homeless (I presume) would be better served (literally and figuratively) at the homeless shelters or kitchens.

I feel insulted that the tenor of discussion regarding Occupy Calgary, in particular, is that these Alice-in-Wonderland characters are afforded some vaunted position of great participators in democracy rather than the pathetic violators of bylaws and rights of others to the public locations of their makeshift shanty towns.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

So Nenshi gives out hugs to the occupy protesters/squatters. Should we be suprised this is Barney's response when the rest of city councel wants them gone and he says he cough,agrees.

Did you see the footage of Nenshi at Olympic Plaza yesterday? It looked like he was about to punch a few of them. He seemed pretty ticked off; more than I have ever seen him before.

I didn't vote for Nenshi; but I am coming around to liking him. I can really see how his hands are tied here. If he forces them out he gives them something tangable to fight with.

[Resolute 14]

If squatting is considered a form of democracy, then I fear for democracy.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by jaydorn

Alright I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

If these protesters want "change" I'll play ball, but I'm going to support organizations that are working towards change in this city rather than waiting for it to happen.

I'll personally donate $100 ($50 & $50) to The Interfaith Foodbank & The Mustard Seed TODAY if these guys leave the plaza.



Why? I'm sick of seeing photos like this:



Undermining actual charity/non-profit groups for your 15 minutes? That's deplorable to me.

A couple of occupiers managed to get Nenshi’s ear briefly, including Brent Talbot, who claimed during a testy moment with the mayor that Occupy Calgary was making the area safer.

Nenshi replied by saying crime rates are the lowest since the 1970s and, “I’m not sure that argument holds any water.”

“Why don’t you come and stay a night with us, and check it out,” Talbot asked.

“Uh, because that would be illegal,” Nenshi responded.



Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/St...#ixzz1cTFsKxvL

[SeeBass]

I agree about the many views on squatting or trespassing but I would assume most protests with no leader and no cash start out this way.

If we are talking about the movement as a whole Calgary is a pretty poor sample of what is going on out there. Sometimes I think Calgary is really starting to grow up and become a real world city and events like this remind me this is not so.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

A few pages back we had this disscussion and yes there where numerous organizations and messages all trying to hitch their wagon to a movement at the beginning. Their was everything from anti Macarthy to no nukes it was a mess of competing messages but eventually one message was the unifying force. We don't know if this group will find one or fade away. I will reserve my judgement for now.

I have no idea where this will go nor do I think it is on par with the peak of the Nam protests but every protest starts with one person.

I think my biggest issue is with the comments generalizing a group of people looking to practise democracy. I am guilty of doing it with the Tea Party this summer too.

What I am going to do this weekend is go down there. I may not agree with a lot of them but I am going to give them a shot and decide for myself. I may walk away shaking my head, grab a sign or a hot dog from a cart then get in my luxury sedan and drive home.

They may be a bunch of unwashed tools to some but in some way they are practising democracy more than I and perhaps a lot of you have in our lifetime.

that will bother some of these no-minds as well....

Meghan, who refused to give her last name, was offering free hugs to people gathered at the plaza marking the continuation of the city’s food truck pilot project.

A handful of protesters, some of whom were camped at the park, came to the event with placards.

One of the placards said “Access to food is a basic human right.”

Some protesters complained the people they represent can’t afford the trendy food sold from the trucks parked at the plaza.

It's just so mind-boggling. i want a big house with all the trimmings but i cant afford it, therefore i am going to protest because of that,

Seriously.....the whole thing is just so inconsequential in its efforts. Give me a message and if i agree, i will join you. If the message continues to be "life isnt fair", then too bad and a word of advice....go WORK towards making the perceived necessary changes instead of squatting and complaining about it.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

A couple of occupiers managed to get Nenshi’s ear briefly, including Brent Talbot, who claimed during a testy moment with the mayor that Occupy Calgary was making the area safer.

Nenshi replied by saying crime rates are the lowest since the 1970s and, “I’m not sure that argument holds any water.”

“Why don’t you come and stay a night with us, and check it out,” Talbot asked.

“Uh, because that would be illegal,” Nenshi responded.



Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/St...#ixzz1cTFsKxvL

Yeah saw that article this morning, love that snappy reply from Nenshi. I voted for him, I don't agree with everything he does, but the fact that he's willing to call out these squatters on their BS is great.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by jaydorn

Yeah saw that article this morning, love that snappy reply from Nenshi. I voted for him, I don't agree with everything he does, but the fact that he's willing to call out these squatters on their BS is great.

The protesters should be deemed squatters. The media is feeding into their distorted cause by referring to them as protesters. Just what is their goal, their platform, their demands. Its a joke. Especially the ones that have joined in to just hang out.

Nenshi has made the statement he does not want them to be romoved by force. Ok fair enough, but Nenshi has to realize the squatters have no intention of moving, so then what.

Nenshi is hoping that Mother Nature will solve his mountain problem that 4 weeks ago was a mole hill for him.

I see no back bone, I see talk. He has city council full support if he wants it saying move them out Now! But Nenshi oh he will say the right things to the media and act all stern in front of the camera with the protesters. Politics thats all he is doing.

This is an easy decision to make. The police will have to get involved at some point.
He doesn't want to because he is a non-confrontational person unless it is words. Thats what I see.

History has proven over and over again in any protest. When the police show up in numbers a certain amount will get spooked and comply.
Create cracks in this little community and it all folds in on itself.

Then they are left with a handful of tools to make a decision partys over or off to jail.

Nenshi is dragging his feet on a simple decision and JMO posturing for the camera and hoping the temp will hit -20.

What would happen if Nenshi was one of these other Mayors like down in the states where the Occupy numbers are a few thousand.

Talk, hug, grit his teeth at protesters. Smile for the cameras Say they really should move they are in violation. Then decide to do what?

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

...

“Uh, because that would be illegal,” Nenshi responded.

...

That's awesome.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

The protesters should be deemed squatters. The media is feeding into their distorted cause by referring to them as protesters. Just what is their goal, their platform, their demands. Its a joke. Especially the ones that have joined in to just hang out.

Nenshi has made the statement he does not want them to be romoved by force. Ok fair enough, but Nenshi has to realize the squatters have no intention of moving, so then what.

Nenshi is hoping that Mother Nature will solve his mountain problem that 4 weeks ago was a mole hill for him.

I see no back bone, I see talk. He has city council full support if he wants it saying move them out Now! But Nenshi oh he will say the right things to the media and act all stern in front of the camera with the protesters. Politics thats all he is doing.

This is an easy decision to make. The police will have to get involved at some point.
He doesn't want to because he is a non-confrontational person unless it is words. Thats what I see.

History has proven over and over again in any protest. When the police show up in numbers a certain amount will get spooked and comply.
Create cracks in this little community and it all folds in on itself.

Then they are left with a handful of tools to make a decision partys over or off to jail.

Nenshi is dragging his feet on a simple decision and JMO posturing for the camera and hoping the temp will hit -20.

What would happen if Nenshi was one of these other Mayors like down in the states where the Occupy numbers are a few thousand.

Talk, hug, grit his teeth at protesters. Smile for the cameras Say they really should move they are in violation. Then decide to do what?

Forcefully removing these people when you can be pretty certain they'll be forced out by the cold in a matter of weeks would be stupid and play right into the hands of these 'protesters'. They want to create a scene, they want there to be images of people being dragged away in handcuffs. Let them sit there and continue to be a laughing stock.

[Regular_John]

Whoa hey guys, turns out their not camping at all. They've found a water tight loophole!

@LaurRaur
Laura Shiels
@apmcbr - that they are not camping but assembling to vice their concerns #occupyYYC

@LaurRaur
Laura Shiels
@apmcbr they use their tents as signs (writing on them) and symbols of their commitment to the protest

@LaurRaur
Laura Shiels
@apmcbr they ARE educated in the subject (that's why they maintain they are not camping).

So turns out if you use something as a sign (writing on it) than it is no longer in violation of the law. In this spirit I will be carving "bring home the troops" onto my flask and commence drinking everywhere I go. It's not public drunkenness, it's supporting our troops, why do you hate the troops?

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

If we are talking about the movement as a whole Calgary is a pretty poor sample of what is going on out there. Sometimes I think Calgary is really starting to grow up and become a real world city and events like this remind me this is not so.

LOL. Because a city truly isn't 'World Class' unless it's got a sufficient number of protestors? Give your head a shake.

Could the real answer be that life in Canada, and Calgary in particular, is pretty darn good - particularly if you're willing to work?