Brad Treliving needs to go

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I'm going to say this on behalf of Cali and myself.

Context is difficult for people isn't it. People got their panties in a knot over the "#### you money" comment. Well, here is the position of "#### you money" explained.

NSFW!

It's not about having a lot of money, its about having enough money. Its about knowing what is going to be enough to where you don't have to put up with other people's bull####. I've worked for 40+ years and have my "#### you" money. Is it a lot of money? To some, yes. More money than they will see in their lifetimes. To some, it's not even couch change. But to me, it's enough to say "#### you" and live comfortably for the rest of my life.
Everyone should strive for this and make sure they have this in place. Once you have that, you're working for yourself and no one else. You are in the position of "#### you."

Enjoy your Kraft Dinner, and your crappy Pixel 3a phone. I think the first explains the latter. /snark (Sorry, man you made that too easy.)

On the topic of Treliving's performance, answer a simple question. Is the organization in better shape now than when he took over? If you believe it is, extend him. If it isn't, he is in a position to be fired. Frankly, IMO, the team is in worse shape. The minor league team is weaker. The NHL team is no better and possibly worse. The outcomes have been poor as a whole. A single trip to the second round - and getting blown out by the provincial rival who has a much weaker team - is not the measure that instills confidence. To me, he has until the start of the season to improve the team and getting it rolling. If this team underperforms out of the gate, Treliving should be given the full Marc Bergevin treatment and be gone by New Years.

LOL, no.

CPF was mocked based on his profession. He took the bait and responded, which is fair enough. I've read interesting perspectives from him in other threads where he very much criticizes the quackery and BS from others in his field. I don't recall him posting about money (though maybe he did), but rather just about being a professor - who I'd add is capable of critical thought and seems to be admirably steering future waves of practitioners towards the path of legitimacy.


Meanwhile, you jumped off the top rope from the C-suite and started throwing fat stacks around in a weird attempt to legitimize yourself. It did not. Congratulations on earning #### you money so you can waste your life on CP with unhealthy obsessions on Sam Bennett and Treliving. It is sad.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

No where near as lame as someone who equates doing "research" with using google to stay one step ahead in a discussion.

Gotta be embarrassing as a professor to admit that someone you think is an uneducated lame-o can stay one step ahead of you in every discussion with “Google-foo”

Good thing you already got that “#### you money.” No refunds, right?

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Nothing straw about the argument, until you start saying things like, but they made the 2nd round in year one, so then……. That was clearly an over achievement likely, just as maybe some of the lesser achievements were under achievements. Point being you gave to take the full picture, good, bad, the good luck and the bad luck.

Overall under BT the Flames are likely average to better than average re: what should be expected if he’d inherited an average team. I believe he inherited a team fresh off its previous core expiring and a team that simply let it expire vs maximizing assets. So he inherited a bad team.

Point being, anyone who’s expected much more than what we’ve got under BT expects too much too soon. BT has been far from error free, but he’s done a good job and IMO is getting better.

You can't say that "Flames made it to the 2nd round twice, therefore above average", but then call that first team 'terrible'. That 'terrible' team had just as much success in year one as this 'above average' team in year 8. That's the point. That's a disconnect in your argument.


I mostly agree with what you post - I usually agree with most of your posts on other topics as well to be clear.


However, I guess we have a difference of opinion on two things - what 'success' is when it comes to the playoffs, and what I bolded in your post.


I do think that after 8 seasons, nobody is expecting too much in too short of a time. Treliving joined this team in a rebuild - it was his job to build a great team. What is a great team? A contender. This team has shown zero support of being a contender at any point in the playoffs. Regular season? Yes, 2 seasons that made people believe this team was a contender - and that's not nothing. Treliving deserves accolades for that.


Once again, I do not think that Treliving deserves to be fired right now. I do think with the Tkachuk deal, he has bought himself some time (whether in the real world or just my imagination). I do, however, think that 8 years is patient enough, especially considering that there are only 2 players left on the team from when Treliving was hired.


In those 8 seasons, we have seen a contender win the cup - 8 seasons of not missing the playoffs and winning the cup once (Washington). We have had what I thought wasn't a contender also with 8 straight seasons of making the playoffs, but no cup - I guess I have to revise my thoughts about Nashville from 'never a true contender' to 'used to be a contender' (maybe they still are since they always make the playoffs, but I think of them as a good team, not a contender).


Flames haven't matched that level of sustained success. Flames have been a bubble team for most of Treliving's tenure. This is complete picture for me - 8 seasons of being a bubble team by definition (not making the playoffs every year, and usually getting bounced in the first round if they do make it, never making it to the conference finals).



The first 4 seasons that's called "exceeding expectations" in building a bubble team considering where that team was in the perceived 'cycle' (rebuilding). The last 4 years? This was supposed to be a contender, no? Spending to the cap, trading away futures? Flames weren't even a playoff team in all 4 years, and made it out of the first round once (to win only one single game after). That's where I am at when it comes to success. I think it is patient - especially since I am not screaming for the GM to be fired. I just think it is a valid discussion point, or at least an 'area of concern'. Flames - in my opinion - have under-performed in the playoffs, and have not once shown themselves to be a contender under Treliving's tenure thus far.


I do hope that this season changes everything. Do I think the team is bad? No. I do think the entire division got better, and it will be more difficult to replicate last year's success, however. This is not a bad team by any stretch - and once again, I do not think Treliving is a bad GM. However, overall, this team has been a mediocre team when it comes to playoff success, even when you discount the first 4 years of Treliving's tenure as rebuilding years (which I think is generous, as he has traded futures during those years and bought players out).

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

eff you money is not I've made enough over the last 50 years to comfortably retire. And no one would mock CPF for being a professor if he would just shut up about it for a second.

[SaskyFlamesFan]

This thread has gotten very weird very quickly, are we really comparing career earnings amongst ourselves

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Wouldn't know, I gave half of my salary to various charities anyway

[jayswin]

That was my favourite joke thing taken as serious in a lot of years here.

[Lanny_McDonald]

MOD EDIT: Removed insult

[jayswin]

Jesus, lol.

[Burning Beard]

Oooffffffffff.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Certainly eff-you money buys thicker skin

[djsFlames]

I need to know how this all relates to Brad Treliving's job security.

[JohnnyB]

Sometimes I wonder what kind of posters Brad could bring into CP by trading some of our current talent.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

Certainly eff-you money buys thicker skin

I literally had only heard the term **** off money used by actors in movies with millions of dollars until two posters on CP used it with a straight face Crazy.

[Lumby Lager]

It’s time for you to just get over yourself, seriously it would probably make your life slightly better.

Enjoy the rest of your summer.

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I'm going to say this on behalf of Cali and myself.

Context is difficult for people isn't it. People got their panties in a knot over the "#### you money" comment. Well, here is the position of "#### you money" explained.

NSFW!

It's not about having a lot of money, its about having enough money. Its about knowing what is going to be enough to where you don't have to put up with other people's bull####. I've worked for 40+ years and have my "#### you" money. Is it a lot of money? To some, yes. More money than they will see in their lifetimes. To some, it's not even couch change. But to me, it's enough to say "#### you" and live comfortably for the rest of my life.
Everyone should strive for this and make sure they have this in place. Once you have that, you're working for yourself and no one else. You are in the position of "#### you."

Enjoy your Kraft Dinner, and your crappy Pixel 3a phone. I think the first explains the latter. /snark (Sorry, man you made that too easy.)

On the topic of Treliving's performance, answer a simple question. Is the organization in better shape now than when he took over? If you believe it is, extend him. If it isn't, he is in a position to be fired. Frankly, IMO, the team is in worse shape. The minor league team is weaker. The NHL team is no better and possibly worse. The outcomes have been poor as a whole. A single trip to the second round - and getting blown out by the provincial rival who has a much weaker team - is not the measure that instills confidence. To me, he has until the start of the season to improve the team and getting it rolling. If this team underperforms out of the gate, Treliving should be given the full Marc Bergevin treatment and be gone by New Years.

[CF84]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I'm going to say this on behalf of Cali and myself.

Context is difficult for people isn't it. People got their panties in a knot over the "#### you money" comment. Well, here is the position of "#### you money" explained.

NSFW!

It's not about having a lot of money, its about having enough money. Its about knowing what is going to be enough to where you don't have to put up with other people's bull####. I've worked for 40+ years and have my "#### you" money. Is it a lot of money? To some, yes. More money than they will see in their lifetimes. To some, it's not even couch change. But to me, it's enough to say "#### you" and live comfortably for the rest of my life.
Everyone should strive for this and make sure they have this in place. Once you have that, you're working for yourself and no one else. You are in the position of "#### you."

Enjoy your Kraft Dinner, and your crappy Pixel 3a phone. I think the first explains the latter. /snark (Sorry, man you made that too easy.)

On the topic of Treliving's performance, answer a simple question. Is the organization in better shape now than when he took over? If you believe it is, extend him. If it isn't, he is in a position to be fired. Frankly, IMO, the team is in worse shape. The minor league team is weaker. The NHL team is no better and possibly worse. The outcomes have been poor as a whole. A single trip to the second round - and getting blown out by the provincial rival who has a much weaker team - is not the measure that instills confidence. To me, he has until the start of the season to improve the team and getting it rolling. If this team underperforms out of the gate, Treliving should be given the full Marc Bergevin treatment and be gone by New Years.

(Sorry man, you made it too easy)

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Says a guy who is also "wasting his life" on CP. Well done dip####.

I absolutely waste too much time on CP. I've still got half as many posts as you despite an earlier join date, and I'm sure I've written less than 1% of the polemics that you have.

I don't know if there's a way to get the stats, but I suspect the vast majority of my posts have come during the pandemic...maybe that's the case for you, too. I've also got other lifestyle reasons right now - full-time parenting gives me a bunch of sporadic short blocks of time where it's hard to get into anything meaningful.

I accept your pwnage of me with benevolence and will try to be better.

[Caboose]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Enjoy your Kraft Dinner, and your crappy Pixel 3a phone. I think the first explains the latter. /snark (Sorry, man you made that too easy.)

Hey! My phone works great, thank you very much!

As for Treliving, I've always considered the GM position as one that's difficult to assess complete success or failure. (Unless you're an Oilers GM). Treliving can't control players' production. He can't control their human nature.

What he can do is his best to put the team in a position where it has a good chance to succeed, and hope for the best. He can keep a flexible cap scenario, he can provide the team with depth and options, and he can maintain a future for the team.

He's had decisions that backfired and ones that looked very good, and IMO, the good ones have outweighed the bad enough for him to have my trust. I trust him to make the right call more often than not, and that's what I want from a GM. The guy can't hand-deliver us a Cup winner. It's vastly luck-based. All he can do is continue to make more good decisions than bad, and hope that the team he assembles breaks through at some point.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[FiveSeven]

I've been buying BTC since 2013, wassup?

[Barnet Flame]

Treliving is performing in god mode recently. I don’t understand anyone who is arguing differently.

In the past, he had two blindspots; goalies and coaches.

Now we have one of the league’s premier coaches and a strong goalie tandem, albeit with a great coach who’s one blind spot seems to be goalie management.

Treliving has had a complete slam dunk of an off season given the challenges faced.