Israel declares war on Hamas

[blankall]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Incredible.

Not really. The standard for "truth" here apparently means only looking at the facts that support your side.

You, yourself, just described 5 teenage women being beaten and threatened on camera with rape (and likely actually raped) as standard hostage taking.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by blankall

The video came out yesterday. Hadn't been mentioned one time. I wouldn't have posted it if facts from from sides were fairly being discussed.

Do you realize people don't like watching that gruesome stuff? It's already a known fact that Israelis were beaten and murdered on Oct 7th and beyond. Why do we need to see a video and how does that change the previous condemnation of Hamas?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Do you realize people don't like watching that gruesome stuff? It's already a known fact that Israelis were beaten and murdered on Oct 7th and beyond. Why do we need to see a video and how does that change the previous condemnation of Hamas?

The video doesn't show the graphic portions. It does show how hostages are being treated. If Hamas is stating they aren't releasing female hostages, as part of a ceasefire deal, and they are committing acts of sexual violence against them, don't you think that's relevant?

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by blankall

The video doesn't show the graphic portions. It does show how hostages are being treated. If Hamas is stating they aren't releasing female hostages, as part of a ceasefire deal, and they are committing acts of sexual violence against them, don't you think that's relevant?

Relevant to what? Humanity? Ceasefire deal?

Also I haven't heard that Hamas has said they aren't releasing female hostages, care to share a link or source? I'm seriously asking as I didn't hear that.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Relevant to what? Humanity? Ceasefire deal?

Also I haven't heard that Hamas has said they aren't releasing female hostages, care to share a link or source? I'm seriously asking as I didn't hear that.

Would this alter your view of the situation at all?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by blankall

I would condemn all violence against civilians. If it's a situation where fighters are hiding behind civilians, then I would hold the fighters hiding behind the civilians at fault.

Do you think that all facts should be discussed, or only the ones that support your view? Everyone else should be silenced? This is a bit of a running theme for you. You were equally "disgusted" when it was mentioned that Hamas had fired machine guns from the roof of the WCK vehicle.

You even just "lied" about the hostage video being brought up before.

Ya, that's what I figured. Doesn't matter who pulls the trigger or makes the decision that it is justifiable to murder civilians as long as there is a Hamas fighter standing in front to them, though that doesn't even seem to be a prerequisite for the IDF.

This is why I ask people to examine their humanity. Because you have found a justification you are comfortable with to accept(and even cheer on) the death of completely innocent civilians and children.

I heard Richard Forer on the radio yesterday, which led me to this book that I think would be worthy reading for anyone in this thread.

Wake Up and Reclaim Your Humanity tells the true story of a lifelong supporter of Israel who underwent a remarkable spiritual awakening in which he realized he was as much Muslim or Christian as Jew and as much Palestinian as Israeli or American. Existential fear and confusion, the hallmarks of separate identities, were transformed into compassion and clarity and an unequivocal vision of the roots of suffering spontaneously arose. Recognizing that endless conflict only leads to alienation from our true selves, this book encourages readers to look at the documented history of the Israel-Palestine tragedy and get in touch with how they view and interpret that history. It offers readers a path that leads to freedom from false beliefs, enemy images, and the illusion of identity to equal rights for all people and a just peace between Palestinians and Israelis.

"An astonishing and groundbreaking commentary, Wake Up and Reclaim Your Humanity is the first book EVER written that explains the root cause of the Israel-Palestine tragedy. Wrestling with the question, "why do normally decent people, who ordinarily believe in justice, support indecency and injustice?", this book provides answers that are critical to a deeper understanding of the human condition and profoundly clarifying in their ability to alleviate the confusion that has permeated the subject for generations. " -J.J. Hebert, #1 Amazon Bestselling Author

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/1735588040

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Would this alter your view of the situation at all?

No, I have always thought that the acts on Oct 7th were disturbing, this only confirms what we already knew. Women experience a disproportionate amount of sexual violence during war. It's awful and indefensible. Still, it does not justify killing 5,000 women and counting.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Would this alter your view of the situation at all?

What view? That I want a ceasefire and Israel to stop killing 40000 more civilians?

No, why would a video of 5 israeli soldiers being tortured do more to my view than 40000 dead civilians?

My view is consistent, stop killing civilians.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Also can see Hamas saying they aren't releasing female israeli soldiers, not female hostages because to them they are Israeli soldiers and not civilians.

[Harry Lime]

The Russians used rape as a weapon for captured female soldiers as well. I was just wondering if there is any possibility that you could bridge the gap between Israeli and Palestinian worldview, or IDF and Hamas forces. Is this a fundamentalism thing, where the world has to be black and white, or there is no afterlife? I just don't understand your relentlessness.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Azure

End of the day Israel as the greater power, and the US as their biggest ally and supporter have again not presented a plan on any of this going forward. Yes Hamas needs to go, but killing low level operatives is literally not accomplishing anything.

Unfortunately I now believe this has gone from a Israel having the right to defend itself and seek justice for the Oct 7 attacks, to the US war machine putting the pieces in place to make sure the conflict continues indefinitely.

Biden Administration looks like a joke at this point, especially given how some moron in Egypt can sideline ceasefire agreements.

Everyone involved on the US/Israel side of this conflict knows the bolded part. The US learned that 20 years ago, Israel has known it forever. They'll whisper to sources occasionally to say 'we're all scratching our heads here because blowing these people up isn't doing anything to accomplish our goals.'

They all know it doesn't accomplish anything. Known it forever. So the real question to ask yourself is what is their true reason for doing what they're doing?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

No, I have always thought that the acts on Oct 7th were disturbing, this only confirms what we already knew. Women experience a disproportionate amount of sexual violence during war. It's awful and indefensible. Still, it does not justify killing 5,000 women and counting.

Also, there are captured Hamas fighters who talk about them, their father, their brother, etc all taking turns raping the women they kidnapped.

Surely nobody actually thinks that this isn't common behaviour for terrorist scum.

ISIS did the same thing.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Azure

Also, there are captured Hamas fighters who talk about them, their father, their brother, etc all taking turns raping the women they kidnapped.

Surely nobody actually thinks that this isn't common behaviour for terrorist scum.

ISIS did the same thing.

Unfortunately I think it is common behavior from men at war. It's a disgusting reality. Lets not pretend that Americans were not sexually abusing hostages in Guantanamo.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

The Russians used rape as a weapon for captured female soldiers as well. I was just wondering if there is any possibility that you could bridge the gap between Israeli and Palestinian worldview, or IDF and Hamas forces. Is this a fundamentalism thing, where the world has to be black and white, or there is no afterlife? I just don't understand your relentlessness.

I don't understand your point. What gap. Say what you mean instead of just empty words.

Stop killing innocent civilians. Stop the rape. Stop the torture. Very easy for me to say but you pro Israel crowd can't get yourselves to condemn israel in the slightest so don't talk to me about "bridging the gap".

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

Not really. The standard for "truth" here apparently means only looking at the facts that support your side.

You, yourself, just described 5 teenage women being beaten and threatened on camera with rape (and likely actually raped) as standard hostage taking.

Actually, I described it as “especially horrific.”

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Like, you needed a video posted today to confirm that being a hostage is (especially of terrorist organization), a horrific experience?

I don’t know. Maybe you’ve never heard of ISIS or other terrorist organizations and were unfamiliar until today with the horrific things hostages of those organizations can be subject to. I don’t want to shock you here, but some times they even kill these poor people.

Watching you prattle on about “truth” and “facts” is honestly hilarious. It’d be one thing if the lies were like… hidden… at all, but you’re literally quoting posts and then pretending they say something different or pretending you didn’t say what other people have already quoted you as saying, or pretending that you can’t find information that literally anyone can find with a simple google.

Aren’t you the guy who pretends to be a lawyer? Yeeeeesh lol.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

I don't understand your point. What gap. Say what you mean instead of just empty words.

Stop killing innocent civilians. Stop the rape. Stop the torture. Very easy for me to say but you pro Israel crowd can't get yourselves to condemn israel in the slightest so don't talk to me about "bridging the gap".

I'm not part of the pro-Israel crowd, but you seem to need to have everyone on one side or the other. Most people how have that view are pretty deeply religious, so I was wondering if that was the engine behind your posts.

I've said twice in this thread what I think the endgame is here, and that's the elimination of Gaza territory, and the relocation of it's people.

Reading your posts, I think that there is no chance at peace. There is no give.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Actually, I described it as “especially horrific.”



I don’t know. Maybe you’ve never heard of ISIS or other terrorist organizations and were unfamiliar until today with the horrific things hostages of those organizations can be subject to. I don’t want to shock you here, but some times they even kill these poor people.

Watching you prattle on about “truth” and “facts” is honestly hilarious. It’d be one thing if the lies were like… hidden… at all, but you’re literally quoting posts and then pretending they say something different or pretending you didn’t say what other people have already quoted you as saying, or pretending that you can’t find information that literally anyone can find with a simple google.

Aren’t you the guy who pretends to be a lawyer? Yeeeeesh lol.

You didn't mention the fact these were teenagers being exposed to sexual violence. Only that being held by a terrorist organization was especially horrific.

You totally glossed over that. Then you get busted doing so, and resort to personal attacks.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

You didn't mention the fact these were teenagers being exposed to sexual violence. Only that being held by a terrorist organization was especially horrific.

You totally glossed over that. Then you get busted doing so, and resort to personal attacks.

“Busted” lol. Now you’re just projecting.

Apologies though, I didn’t realize sexual violence didn’t qualify as “especially horrific” to you. Wonder what does.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

“Busted” lol. Now you’re just projecting.

Apologies though, I didn’t realize sexual violence didn’t qualify as “especially horrific” to you. Wonder what does.

Your playbook:

1. Virtue signal about how your views are the only morally acceptable ones.
2. Ignore the sexual assault of Israeli teenagers because it doesn't fit your narrative and political views.
3. Backtrack on those statements when called about them.
4. Resort to personal attacks.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

Your playbook:

1. Virtue signal about how your views are the only morally acceptable ones.
2. Ignore the sexual assault of Israeli teenagers because it doesn't fit your narrative and political views.
3. Backtrack on those statements when called about them.
4. Resort to personal attacks.

Hey man, you’re the one who said sexual violence wasn’t horrific. Pretty sure my morality is at least better than that.