Brad Treliving needs to go

[flamesgod]

Keep up the good work Tre. I think you’ve done a pretty good job, when you consider some of the challenges a small Canadian market can face. Give the guy a break, he just came off a 111 pt division winning season.

[Lanny_McDonald]

I'll repeat. Nothing has changed. The exact same situation exists prior to Gaudreau walking and the Tkachuk trade. We still have two high value assets that need extensions and both are crucial to the long term success of the organization. Failure to get them signed in short order means they should be moved prior to the start of the season and not allow this to drag out. The team CANNOT allow this to stretch out to the trade deadline where the team is then forced to sit on these assets in hope of a playoff run, then lose them for nothing as they go to free agency. This needs to be resolved prior to the start of training camp and keep the team focused.

Some are going to suggest that this can stretch out to the trade deadline, but that is not wise. The likelihood of Treliving pulling the trigger on a deal if the Flames are remotely close to earning a playoff berth is pretty small. He'll not do what is needed but instead roll the dice for a hope of a playoff run. This is not what this team needs. It needs some stability and understanding of where it is headed, both for the team and the fans. Getting the two guys inked or moved for assets is an imperative. The longer this plays out, the worse it will be for the team. The closer we get to the deadline the worse the return will be. 2023 firsts appear to be off the table, so you're looking at 2024 or 2025 firsts. You're more likely to get already drafted prospects but those available are not the ones that are the highest of quality. This needs to get done while teams believe they have time and space to make changes, especially when it comes to young players in the system.

[dino7c]

People really need to stop lumping Gaudreau into this trade

[flames_fan_down_under]

I think Treliving is well aware of the necessity of signing these two, both for the long term success of the team, the fact that this team is decidedly in a "win now" phase, and purely optics as well, seeing two more high end players that they just acquired leave just after Gaudreau and Tkachuk would be fairly damaging to Treliving's reputation. I am certain he see's the big picture here. Seeing as going towards a rebuild is something that is just frankly not going to happen under Treliving's watch I would love to see him pick up another centre through a trade of one of our D-men.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I'll repeat. Nothing has changed. The exact same situation exists prior to Gaudreau walking and the Tkachuk trade. We still have two high value assets that need extensions and both are crucial to the long term success of the organization. Failure to get them signed in short order means they should be moved prior to the start of the season and not allow this to drag out. The team CANNOT allow this to stretch out to the trade deadline where the team is then forced to sit on these assets in hope of a playoff run, then lose them for nothing as they go to free agency. This needs to be resolved prior to the start of training camp and keep the team focused.

Some are going to suggest that this can stretch out to the trade deadline, but that is not wise. The likelihood of Treliving pulling the trigger on a deal if the Flames are remotely close to earning a playoff berth is pretty small. He'll not do what is needed but instead roll the dice for a hope of a playoff run. This is not what this team needs. It needs some stability and understanding of where it is headed, both for the team and the fans. Getting the two guys inked or moved for assets is an imperative. The longer this plays out, the worse it will be for the team. The closer we get to the deadline the worse the return will be. 2023 firsts appear to be off the table, so you're looking at 2024 or 2025 firsts. You're more likely to get already drafted prospects but those available are not the ones that are the highest of quality. This needs to get done while teams believe they have time and space to make changes, especially when it comes to young players in the system.

We have an extra year for sure now. So that’s changed.

[Poison]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I'll repeat. Nothing has changed. The exact same situation exists prior to Gaudreau walking and the Tkachuk trade. We still have two high value assets that need extensions and both are crucial to the long term success of the organization. Failure to get them signed in short order means they should be moved prior to the start of the season and not allow this to drag out. The team CANNOT allow this to stretch out to the trade deadline where the team is then forced to sit on these assets in hope of a playoff run, then lose them for nothing as they go to free agency. This needs to be resolved prior to the start of training camp and keep the team focused.

Some are going to suggest that this can stretch out to the trade deadline, but that is not wise. The likelihood of Treliving pulling the trigger on a deal if the Flames are remotely close to earning a playoff berth is pretty small. He'll not do what is needed but instead roll the dice for a hope of a playoff run. This is not what this team needs. It needs some stability and understanding of where it is headed, both for the team and the fans. Getting the two guys inked or moved for assets is an imperative. The longer this plays out, the worse it will be for the team. The closer we get to the deadline the worse the return will be. 2023 firsts appear to be off the table, so you're looking at 2024 or 2025 firsts. You're more likely to get already drafted prospects but those available are not the ones that are the highest of quality. This needs to get done while teams believe they have time and space to make changes, especially when it comes to young players in the system.

Plus a highly rated prospect. Also a 1st. Things have changed.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

We have an extra year for sure now. So that’s changed.

No we don't. We have a window to get these guys signed and at best until the trade deadline to recoup assets. The longer this drags out the lesser return we'll likely see. This team and its fans learn nothing from past mistakes. This cannot continue to drag out because the return will continue to get worse. Get Huberdeau and Weegar signed ASAP.

Originally Posted by Poison

Plus a highly rated prospect. Also a 1st. Things have changed.

A mid-grade prospect. A 3rd rounder from 2019. Let's not blow this kid out of proportion. We might have a third line player if this guy develops. Not highly rated. Didn't even make the Panthers' top 10 prospects.

https://nhlrumors.com/2021-22-top-10...ts/2021/11/29/

https://thehockeywriters.com/panther...021-22-season/

https://lastwordonsports.com/hockey/...ers-prospects/

https://www.nhl.com/news/florida-pan...ch/c-319698828

https://fullpresshockey.com/2021/09/...-10-prospects/

It's nice having another player with potential in the system, but he's not a highly rated prospect. The 1st is at minimum three drafts in the future, possibly four, and is top 10 protected. That means that player is probably 8-10 years away from playing in the NHL. When looking at the current situation of the hockey club, nothing has changed. We still have two UFAs that need contracts or were lose them for nothing.,

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by flamesgod
We have an extra year for sure now. So that’s changed.

No. Right now we have 2 high valued assets that are in the Tkachuck situation, 1 year left of control. You can either extend them, trade them while you have control or roll the dice and take your chances later in the season.


A year from now both assets will be in the Gaudreau situation where the team has no control and the player can walk for nothing in UFA.

[Poison]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

No we don't. We have a window to get these guys signed and at best until the trade deadline to recoup assets. The longer this drags out the lesser return we'll likely see. This team and its fans learn nothing from past mistakes. This cannot continue to drag out because the return will continue to get worse. Get Huberdeau and Weegar signed ASAP.



A mid-grade prospect. A 3rd rounder from 2019. Let's not blow this kid out of proportion. We might have a third line player if this guy develops. Not highly rated. Didn't even make the Panthers' top 10 prospects.

https://nhlrumors.com/2021-22-top-10...ts/2021/11/29/

https://thehockeywriters.com/panther...021-22-season/

https://lastwordonsports.com/hockey/...ers-prospects/

https://www.nhl.com/news/florida-pan...ch/c-319698828

https://fullpresshockey.com/2021/09/...-10-prospects/

It's nice having another player with potential in the system, but he's not a highly rated prospect. The 1st is at minimum three drafts in the future, possibly four, and is top 10 protected. That means that player is probably 8-10 years away from playing in the NHL. When looking at the current situation of the hockey club, nothing has changed. We still have two UFAs that need contracts or were lose them for nothing.,

You have been screaming from the high heavens since this deal went down that they need to be resigned.
I agree wholeheartedly, yet i feel no outcome will satisfy you.
Resign both? Youll have a problem with term or dollars.
Resign one? Why not both?
Resign neither? Told you it was a failed trade, even if we gain considerable assets dealing them.
Only way u are right in the worry is Johnny 2.0 for TWO players which i will gladly wager whatever u would like will not happen.
Le Sigh.

[NOISIA]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

You should make the conference finals every 8 years on average.

If only the laws of averages worked like that.

Tampa just made 3 straight finals.

4 in 18.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by NOISIA

If only the laws of averages worked like that.

Tampa just made 3 straight finals.

4 in 18.

Well they’ve been around since 92.

They’ve been to 5 finals in 30 years

[NOISIA]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Well they’ve been around since 92.

They’ve been to 5 finals in 30 years

Not arguing they have done a great job.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Treliving didn't just make a good trade yesterday.



He was a wizard. We were hoping he would pull a rabbit out of hat with the Tkachuk trade. Well, he pulled a rabbit out of a hat, and then proceeded to pull a fricken elephant out of that rabbit's butt. Pure unadulterated wizardry.


I think that Treliving has this organization very well positioned to either compete, or to go into a rebuild. Looking at the contract structures and so on. The one thing that scares me is going into this season with Huberdeau and Weegar both not extended. Are the Flames going to be 'ruthless' with their asset management and trade them if they are comfortably in a playoff spot? Will we lose these two high-value assets for nothing, and be forced into a rebuild with less assets and less chance of finding success in the rebuild? It is certainly a difficult question.


I don't think that Treliving deserves to get fired, nor do I think he deserves to be extended. We can applaud his good moves and we can criticize his poor ones, no? We don't have to always have to have such extreme arguments one way and then the other.


For me personally, I just see a team that hasn't been out of the 2nd round through this rebuild. I can't call this rebuild a success. Sure, there have been good times and bright spots - I didn't say it was an utter failure either. Just.. mediocre in many ways.


This is me as a Flames fan. I certainly can guess the seasons that the Flames won the President's Trophy with reasonable accuracy - probably 90% and within 1-2 seasons max. However, I can give you the exact years that the Flames made the Finals, and I certainly can not possibly forget when the won the cup and how fricken beautiful that team was, even if I was too young to really appreciate it back then.


As a fan, those are the moments that really matter. Sure, this team has had good regular seasons. No shame in celebrating those. This team has given us legit reasons to be optimistic and happy - no 'negative nancy' can suck the joy out of those moments from me (and that includes that highly entertaining Bob Hartley season of comeback wins - wan't that fricken exciting for a regular season??).



I also can't forget the disappointments when it mattered the most - not getting out of the 2nd round - especially not even making the playoffs consistently.



I don't think there is a 'winning argument' here for either side. I do agree with "The Hockey" guy in his video. States with how the team is right now in terms of existing contracts, Treliving may not (and will probably not) be the GM rebuilding this team. Maybe he will, but I doubt it. 8 years already. If the Flames think he may be the next Fletcher and that he will continue learning on the job and becoming an 'elite GM' - sure, that's their choice. I won't demand or stomp my feet in protest. I don't think he is terrible at all. I just don't see much in the way of success either.


One thing that is 100% commendable right now - I do think that Treliving has this team very well positioned to either 'go for it' or to rebuild. This team can do a very quick and nasty rebuild with how the contracts are structured, how much cap will be available to them, and so forth. No long-term poor contracts, no missing picks, a decent prospect pool to serve as a good base, some young players on the team too. There is a lot to like about a rebuild here.



Prior to the first rebuild, there were decent contracts that the Flames blew in trades (thanks Feaster!) with Regehr, Iginla and Bouwmeester, and most notably was Giordano, Brodie and Backlund on the team (and Ferland in the pipeline too - say what you will about him, but he was a game-changer and I will forever remember him).



I think there is a lot more value on this team, so simply going from a pure asset management and 'how this team was left' standpoint, I think Treliving has this team in better shape. That's not nothing.


Treliving does not suck and should not be fired, but he also hasn't attained any level of real success in this rebuild, and most of the 'core' he started with are gone now and the team is indeed at the crossroads today.

[flambers]

This trade will come down to can they resign the pending UFAs.

If they are not able to resign....

In my view that is likely the start of a rebuid

[jeffman]

People are forgetting if huber and Seeger don’t want to resign we can flip them at the trade deadline for prospects and 1st rounders so it gives us many options. Good job tre

[flambers]

Originally Posted by jeffman

People are forgetting if huber and Seeger don’t want to resign we can flip them at the trade deadline for prospects and 1st rounders so it gives us many options. Good job tre

For sure, if they don't sign and start the season as pending UFAs.

They can be moved, however I expect the Flames could obtain 1st round selections in future drafts. (i.e. not lottery picks)

Challenge is those type of moves are all long term.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by jeffman

People are forgetting if huber and Seeger don’t want to resign we can flip them at the trade deadline for prospects and 1st rounders so it gives us many options. Good job tre

Then you lost 2 superstars for magic beans

Hopefully Huberdeau resigns

[TheChief]

I think we are in much of the same situation as we were coming into this summer. We all know that management wont allow Huberdeau and Weeger as well as anyone else contributing to winning be allowed to go at the deadline if we are in the playoffs or *most likely* in the hunt for the division again. That leaves us with the very likely potential that we only got a prospect and 1st for an extended Tkachuk which doesn't look good by any metric.



If these guys are looking to test the market they will need to be flipped before the season starts, I feel the Flames summer is far from over.



For all the harping on how bad the flames won the trade and that Zito was "drunk" lets see how it all shakes down. Maybe Zito and FLA Management had the balls to call a spade a spade and cut loose while they still had value in doing so.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by jeffman

People are forgetting if huber and Seeger don’t want to resign we can flip them at the trade deadline for prospects and 1st rounders so it gives us many options. Good job tre

I don’t think anyone is forgetting that. But if the team is in contention for the playoffs, they won’t sell. Playoff teams practically never sell at the deadline.

So if we can’t re-sign them, the other option is to hope the team sucks or win the Cup. I just have doubts that this is a Stanley Cup winning roster. I would love to be wrong on that last point of course.

Just re-sign them and it all becomes moot.

[rhino]

[QUOTE=jeffman;8383441]People are forgetting if huber and Seeger don’t want to resign we can flip them at the trade deadline for prospects and 1st rounders so it gives us many options. Good job tre[/QUOTE

If there is not a signature from 1 or both before the season starts you trade them before an injury can occur completely removing the option to move them at the deadline. No more waiting to see how the season goes.