Assuming your talking about me(It's T@T with an @ BTW) please show me where I have shown "hate" towards gays? People see this and now I'm a gay hater? because you say so? Fact is I probably have more gay friends than you do and all I ever said was I don't agree with open public gayness and probably never will...that is not "hate" sir. It honesty!
I know the rest of your post(s) tried to explain but...wow!
For the record the closest I come to "hating" anyone is when religious fanatics murder innocent people but i certainly don't hate anyones race or someones sexual preference.
I'm guessing he's referring to the posts you made awhile ago where you skirt around your homophobia (come on, exercise some self honesty here). You know, the ones where you say you don't like seeing gay people kiss because you don't want to educate your son about it, or something along those lines, and attribute it to an old gay guy coming onto you years ago.
That, and classics like these, amongst some others:
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Problem I see with gay people getting married (and I don't want to bunch them together on this) but after they get married some seem to flaunt it. At a wedding this summer these 2 guys couldn't keep their hands off each other and they were quite proud of their "marriage"... quite a site to behold. Now instead of people saying "so and so" had a nice wedding all they think and talk about is the debacle of the 2 guys necking on the dance floor.
I also know 2 lesbians that within 1 minute of meeting them you'll be told.
Call me old school, call me a prick if you like, I don't really care but I liked it better when the gays lived in the closet. No matter how much we say we can handle it, "normal" society isn't ready for this yet.
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Since your so pro gay how about posting some pics the next time there's a parade downtown...I'll even make you more famous by putting them on my facebook page for you...your family will love them.
You were the one to ask . . .
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Last edited by HPLovecraft; 08-06-2012 at 10:01 PM.
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I'm guessing he's referring to the posts you made awhile ago where you skirt around your homophobia (come on, exercise some self honesty here). You know, the ones where you say you don't like seeing gay people kiss because you don't want to educate your son about it, or something along those lines, and attribute it to an old gay guy coming onto you years ago.
That, and classics like these, amongst some others:
You were the one to ask . . .
To find it uncomfortable to educate my son on gayness doesn't make it "hate" does it?. when friends come over for a party or barbecue and show affection to each other I don't blink an eye but then again my friends wouldn't neck or rub each other in front of kids either.
And correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't homophobia mean afraid of being gay yourself? I think after 2 wifes,2 kids and "umm" a few other women in my 50 years I fairly sure I know my sexuality.
Fact is I don't hate gays or anyone so don't make it seem so,if you want to support open gayness be my guest, go downtown with a picket and a tutu and I'll support your cause all the way from my office.
To find it uncomfortable to educate my son on gayness doesn't make it "hate" does it?. when friends come over for a party or barbecue and show affection to each other I don't blink an eye but then again my friends wouldn't neck or rub each other in front of kids either.
Will you not feel uncomfortable educating your son on straight people as well? I fail to see the difference in the uncomfortable level if you're explaining straight sex or gay sex. That is unless of course you're homophobic, which it seems like you are in the closet about. And your assertion that only gay people "neck and rub each other" in front of children is idiotic. Did you visit the Calgary Stampede this year? I can tell you I saw my share of blowjobs in the bushes by the river and it wasn't a male doing the blowing.
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Fact is I don't hate gays or anyone so don't make it seem so,if you want to support open gayness be my guest, go downtown with a picket and a tutu and I'll support your cause all the way from my office.
Do you take paypal?
Fact is, judging from the posts HP quoted that you are in fact a homophobe, and trying to make it seem like you aren't by saying "I have gay friends" is actually quite sad. Do you tell your gay friends that you're against "open gayness"?(whatever the hell that means). If you don't support gays being able to be openly gay than you are a homophobe the same way the people who wanted the blacks to have the right to drink out of a water fountain, but just a different one, are racists.
To find it uncomfortable to educate my son on gayness doesn't make it "hate" does it?. when friends come over for a party or barbecue and show affection to each other I don't blink an eye but then again my friends wouldn't neck or rub each other in front of kids either.
And correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't homophobia mean afraid of being gay yourself? I think after 2 wifes,2 kids and "umm" a few other women in my 50 years I fairly sure I know my sexuality.
Fact is I don't hate gays or anyone so don't make it seem so,if you want to support open gayness be my guest, go downtown with a picket and a tutu and I'll support your cause all the way from my office.
Do you take paypal?
Ok. Since you asked nicely, I will correct you. It does not.
Homophobia is a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). Definitions refer variably to antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, irrational fear, and hatred
It's doesn't mean (or have to mean) you are worried about your own sexuality at all. It just means you aren't tolerant or accepting or comfortable with that lifestyle.
I remember that post about your son. I simply said I would (and have) explain(ed) it thusly:
'You see, some men like women, but some men like men. It isn't that strange. And no matter who you choose to love when you get older, I'll still love you.'
Boom. Done like dinner. Easy peasy. If you have a problem explaining things that way, it's probably because you yourself are uncomfortable with it.
And it doesn't have to be hate. I don't think anyone here is accusing you of outright hatred or bigotry. I don't think you'd be joining Westboro Basptist or anything like that. You seem like a pretty good guy. But there is no denying that based on your posts in the past, your attitude does suffer from some homophobia.
I will also admit it has seemed to evolve a little over time. Maybe it will continue evolving?
Last edited by Daradon; 08-06-2012 at 11:53 PM.
Reason: typos
To find it uncomfortable to educate my son on gayness doesn't make it "hate" does it?. when friends come over for a party or barbecue and show affection to each other I don't blink an eye but then again my friends wouldn't neck or rub each other in front of kids either.
Louis explains it better than I can (NSFW):
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Ok. Since you asked nicely, I will correct you. It does not.
Homophobia is a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). Definitions refer variably to antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, irrational fear, and hatred
It's doesn't mean (or have to mean) you are worried about your own sexuality at all. It just means you are tolerant or accepting or comfortable wit that lifestyle.
I remember that post about your son. I simply said I would (and have) explain(ed) it thusly:
'You see, some men like women, but some men like men. It isn't that strange. And no matter who you choose to love when you get older, I'll still love you.'
Boom. Done like dinner. Easy peasy. If you have a problem explaining things that way, it's probably because you yourself are uncomfortable with it.
And it doesn't have to be hate. I don't think anyone here is accusing you of outright hatred or bigotry. I don't think you'd be joining Westboro Basptist or anything like that. You seem like a pretty good guy. But there is no denying that based on your posts in the past, your attitude does suffer from some homophobia.
I will also admit it has seemed to evolve a little over time. Maybe it will continue evolving?
I actually read this 3 times...very good sir and extremely well writen.If that is the defination of homophobia then I'll except that as I don't really know any difference. The part about "Easy peasy" seems easy to you but it's not that easy for me, upbringing,age..who knows? but I do know 30 years ago it was much different than it is today...so I have evolved I guess.
But I responded to this thread(your bold part) because it was stated that I hated gays, this is very far from the truth and I never stated anything like it.
I actually read this 3 times...very good sir and extremely well writen.If that is the defination of homophobia then I'll except that as I don't really know any difference. The part about "Easy peasy" seems easy to you but it's not that easy for me, upbringing,age..who knows? but I do know 30 years ago it was much different than it is today...so I have evolved I guess.
But I responded to this thread(your bold part) because it was stated that I hated gays, this is very far from the truth and I never stated anything like it.
For the record I think Tim Thomas is a flake.
Very true, it is definitely something that the younger generations have an easier time with than the older generations. This is true of all evolving attitudes. Civil rights, Womens rights, it all gets easier with time and with the newer generations, and this will too.
There have been a few posters who have over exaggerated their classification of your attitudes (using words like hate) I will agree. But I don't think they meant it in the literal. It's just that escalation of the written word in a casual internet setting. If they actually did mean that, then that is sad, because I do know that isn't you.
To find it uncomfortable to educate my son on gayness doesn't make it "hate" does it?. when friends come over for a party or barbecue and show affection to each other I don't blink an eye but then again my friends wouldn't neck or rub each other in front of kids either.
And correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't homophobia mean afraid of being gay yourself? I think after 2 wifes,2 kids and "umm" a few other women in my 50 years I fairly sure I know my sexuality.
Fact is I don't hate gays or anyone so don't make it seem so,if you want to support open gayness be my guest, go downtown with a picket and a tutu and I'll support your cause all the way from my office.
Do you take paypal?
Do you know how your position would sound applied to any other civil rights movement? Not to mention that last post I quoted certainly seems to allude to the fact that you think it's some sort of shameful situation to be gay and have others know of it. I am sure your bajillion homosexual buddies would love that one.
You should think on your position, and stop deluding yourself. I actually think it would be better to be a homophobe, and to at least recognize the problem so you can improve yourself through introspection, than to be clueless about it and continue the charade that you're cool with gays with positions like gay people should stay in the closet because it's icky.
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There have been a few posters who have over exaggerated their classification of your attitudes (using words like hate) I will agree. But I don't think they meant it in the literal. It's just that escalation of the written word in a casual internet setting. If they actually did mean that, then that is sad, because I do know that isn't you.
It may not be foaming-at-the-mouth kill all homos hatred, but we're well past that from anyone but the fringes - the WBChurch is basically the KKK for all its relevance. But though certainly not extremist, his attitude is bad enough that I find myself feeling pretty sorry for his son.
What a load of crap. Liberal democracy (even in the U.S.) has been trending the way of Mill, Bentham, and Kant for the better part of the last 150 years. Also, any political theorist worth his salt knows that the main theories of Locke and Hobbes are horrendously flawed, specifically their views on human nature.
EDIT: Not to mention that what you're stating is a fallacy on several levels.
How long did it take you to write up this cute little load of nonsense?
Also, what do Bentham and Mill have in common with Kant? Do you know who Kant follows? Do you know anything about Hegel? Nietzsche? Kojeve? Please provide some logical evidence as to why you would lump these three thinkers together? How does Utilitarianism fit in with German Idealism? They clearly do not, as any political theorist "worth his salt" would tell you.
How long did it take you to write up this cute little load of nonsense?
Also, what do Bentham and Mill have in common with Kant? Do you know who Kant follows? Do you know anything about Hegel? Nietzsche? Kojeve? Please provide some logical evidence as to why you would lump these three thinkers together? How does Utilitarianism fit in with German Idealism? They clearly do not, as any political theorist "worth his salt" would tell you.
Oh lord. No one was linking Mill, Bentham and Kant together in ideology. My point was that modern liberalism, and "liberal democracy" have evolved into a hybrid of utilitarianism and democratic socialism. Do I really need to link Kant to Bernstein and the obvious connection between post-Marx socialism and duty-based ethics for you?
EDIT: And my second point was that anyone who is forming their policy decisions around Lockeian concepts of human nature is a dinosaur.
EDIT #2: Also note, that I'm not a particularly huge fan of utilitarianism. I'm simply stating it's the current trend.
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Originally Posted by peter12
Do you know anything about Hegel? Nietzsche? Kojeve?
You know a lot about philosophers and not very much about humanity. If I was wrong, you wouldn't annoy so many people with your inadvertently condescending attitude.
To make an analogy that illustrates why your arguments always ultimately fail, nobody agrees with Calgaryborn, because his arguments are based on his interpretation of the Bible. Similarly, you can't articulate your arguments without reference to your interpretation of the works of philosophers. The common thread is that neither the Bible nor Hegel ( <- for example only, before you get hung up on that specific name) is an authoritative source, despite his and your respective beliefs that they are so.
I suggest, and you are of course free to ignore, that you ruthlessly quash any references to the names of philosophers or philosophies out of your writing, and your arguments will be much the better for it. Even if you disagree with my reasons above, at the very least you must recognize that few people share your familiarity with the works and ideas in question, so it comes across as so much gobbledy#### and bafflegab.
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For that matter, Calgaryborn's arguments would be the better if he ruthlessly slashed out any mention of God, the Bible, and Christianity in his writing. I'm not sure if that's even possible, though - pretty well all his arguments can be rendered down to "this is what I think the Bible says and therefore any other opinion is wrong".
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What a load of crap. Liberal democracy (even in the U.S.) has been trending the way of Mill, Bentham, and Kant for the better part of the last 150 years. Also, any political theorist worth his salt knows that the main theories of Locke and Hobbes are horrendously flawed, specifically their views on human nature.
EDIT: Not to mention that what you're stating is a fallacy on several levels.
I honestly thought this was a quote from the "how do you like them apples?" scene in Good Will Hunting. Lol.
Fact is I probably have more gay friends than you do and all I ever said was I don't agree with open public gayness and probably never will...that is not "hate" sir. It honesty!
