Making the playoffs or keeping our top-10 first round pick 2025?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

why not both?

and it is potentially 15-20 spots in the draft

At the moment, the Panthers are sitting 10th in the league. It's highly unlikely to be 15 spots, and it absolutely will not be 20 unless the Flames' pick is 11th or 12th and the Panthers make the Stanley Cup finals.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The fact that their star goalie is a rookie and not a 35 year old makes a HUGE difference. Wolf being all world is more important than 5-10 spots in one draft.

IMO

We can have both. Anaheim has all world goaltending as you like to call it and they are in the bottom 10.

Also, yes there is a significant difference in 15 spots in the draft.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No, that is not a certainty.

It absolutely is a certainty. That's negotiating 101. If you have to sell immediately, nobody is going to give you their best offer.

And no one is suggesting they pick up the phone this afternoon and take the first offer they get - you still put in the work and shop around.

Some posters are pretty much suggesting exactly that, because they think it's so important to lose games.

Let's not forget that last year, they decided to move Lindholm early. And it turned out that Lindholm got a better return than anyone at the deadline.

Let's also not forget that the Lindholm trade was a once-in-a-career fleecing. If you're counting on that to happen again, good luck to you. For those odds, I'd rather play the lottery.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

At the moment, the Panthers are sitting 10th in the league. It's highly unlikely to be 15 spots, and it absolutely will not be 20 unless the Flames' pick is 11th or 12th and the Panthers make the Stanley Cup finals.

They are also 4 points behind being 4th. I suspect some rest during the 4 Nations Exibhition series allows them to get rolling to the end the season.

They play a pretty hard brand of hockey that is hard to keep up all season, never mind 2 cup runs.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

They are also 4 points behind being 4th. I suspect some rest during the 4 Nations Exibhition series allows them to get rolling to the end the season.

They play a pretty hard brand of hockey that is hard to keep up all season, never mind 2 cup runs.

And you expect them to not only keep it up but turn it up higher, after getting a break that every team in the league gets?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

And you expect them to not only keep it up but turn it up higher, after getting a break that every team in the league gets?

It's 4 points, I don't think it's difficult to make up.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

It's 4 points, I don't think it's difficult to make up.

It's just as difficult as it is for any other team. The teams ahead of Florida aren't just going to throw games to screw the Flames over.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

It's just as difficult as it is for any other team. The teams ahead of Florida aren't just going to throw games to screw the Flames over.

The top of the league has been changing, so no I don't think they will throw games but it's up and down.

Just like teams below the Flames can get hot and pass us.

We will see what happens lots of time left.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

That's the math
- To what degree does Conroy think that his price is being met now to trade Andersson, including given that they also have the option to trade him in the off-season
- To what degree does trading Andersson increase the probability of a top 10 pick


But I also think it's not in his make-up to make a trade explicitly to move down the standings. To me that's where you get into true tanking, which I don't think is what they are trying to do. Which of course you can disagree with.

To the first point - the Flames have flexibility with when they do the trade, but other teams are up against competitive bids. There is no reason to think that they'll pay more at the deadline than they will now. So as far as the math goes, there isn't much. (caveat being: if no one is interested right now, you can't force it. In that scenario, you have to wait)

To the 2nd point - unquantifiable, but definitely greater than zero. And the prize of success is more than worth it.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

At the moment, the Panthers are sitting 10th in the league. It's highly unlikely to be 15 spots, and it absolutely will not be 20 unless the Flames' pick is 11th or 12th and the Panthers make the Stanley Cup finals.

The '15' number is if they get top 10. Because the Panthers are likely to pick no better than 20-25. And if they pass Toronto (very possible) they are in the 25-30 group. All of those numbers are without making it to the Cup finals.

However, if we keep on the path of trying to make the playoffs, then we likely finish 14-16 and you're right, the expected difference is probably in the 10-12 range. But the point is, why take that path?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

It absolutely is a certainty. That's negotiating 101. If you have to sell immediately, nobody is going to give you their best offer.



Some posters are pretty much suggesting exactly that, because they think it's so important to lose games.



Let's also not forget that the Lindholm trade was a once-in-a-career fleecing. If you're counting on that to happen again, good luck to you. For those odds, I'd rather play the lottery.

You're just being pedantic here - no one is selling 'sell immediately! today! yesterday!

The suggestion is to sell in January, as opposed to March, because that will significantly impact their chances of finishing top 10

But sure, make up your own arguments to argue against.

As to the Lindholm comment? Once in a career? Come on man. The point was that they did well, not waiting.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

And you expect them to not only keep it up but turn it up higher, after getting a break that every team in the league gets?

They have made the finals 2 years in a row. Do you not think they have coasted a bit through the first half of the season? Guaranteed they have - it is SOP for teams in their situation.

So yeah, expecting that they might be better in the 2nd half is far from a stretch

[Paulie Walnuts]

Trading Andersson earlier also puts Barrie and Miromanov back into the rotation and pushing up a Hanley or Bean.

Getting a good 30 games of those guys in the top 4 will lead to a lot more bleeding.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

To the first point - the Flames have flexibility with when they do the trade, but other teams are up against competitive bids. There is no reason to think that they'll pay more at the deadline than they will now. So as far as the math goes, there isn't much. (caveat being: if no one is interested right now, you can't force it. In that scenario, you have to wait)

To the 2nd point - unquantifiable, but definitely greater than zero. And the prize of success is more than worth it.

The dynamics that could impact trade value is, if enough teams are in a mode to go for it and pay to add a piece like him. And more teams could have available cap space as they approach the deadline.

[DJones]

At this point we're kinda stuck. I imagine we'll have a hot streak somewhere that keeps us close to 90 points.

Kuzmenko sucks, so unless we trade Rasmus there really isn't anyone to trade.

Unless a huge trade comes along I don't see much changing.

[Flamesfan05]

Very average talent but have a few young guys that can win a few games on a hot streak and a couple old guys that can win a few games. At the end not good enough and not bad enough. But can be really bad if they run out of gas

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The dynamics that could impact trade value is, if enough teams are in a mode to go for it and pay to add a piece like him. And more teams could have available cap space as they approach the deadline.

Yes, I understand all that. But I can't recall any evidence that waiting until the deadline improves returns. In fact, my recollections are that the early deals are often the best returns. I certainly don't see any evidence that the early deals are worse.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by DJones

At this point we're kinda stuck. I imagine we'll have a hot streak somewhere that keeps us close to 90 points.

Kuzmenko sucks, so unless we trade Rasmus there really isn't anyone to trade.

Unless a huge trade comes along I don't see much changing.

Yep, not good enough for a playoff run. And not bad enough to get a good pick.

Stuck in the murky middle. A Flames story.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

And you expect them to not only keep it up but turn it up higher, after getting a break that every team in the league gets?

I mean, they could easily turn it up a notch. I could see them winning another cup even, though it would be difficult with the amount of wear and tear.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, I understand all that. But I can't recall any evidence that waiting until the deadline improves returns. In fact, my recollections are that the early deals are often the best returns. I certainly don't see any evidence that the early deals are worse.

Well isn't it all hypothetical? How can you measure that without knowing what deals were offered earlier or later?