[News] LeBrun/Dreger - Flames open for Business

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

The only way that LA can take on Markstrom is by moving Arvidsson and he is no LITR. Can you trade a player like that?

Technically, under those circumstances, you would only have to retain 500K for this season, or 1M for LA to fit Markstrom under the salary cap next year, with the raises they need to give.

Markstrom (1M retained) for Copley and Arvidsson, plus Turcotte... is a good trade.

This is Turcottes first injury free pro season.

edit : I guess LA can just LITR Arvidsson for the entire season... Still doesn't have to be 3M

Why would LA be interested in Markstrom. Talbot is having a career season to date and is on a cheap contract. Kings are pretty set in goal.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by dino7c

what does he care he is gone after this season

Sadly I think that is what stops him from doing something really stupid

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Why would LA be interested in Markstrom. Talbot is having a career season to date and is on a cheap contract. Kings are pretty set in goal.

For this year

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No they don't. But last season was just that - a bad season. They happen.

Markstrom is the starting goalie that he has been for the past several years. And he has value. The fact that you are tainted, because of last season, is irrelevant to his value around the league.

.904
.922
.892
.904


You look at these stats, and you look at his performance in the 3+ years as a Flame, and you look at $6M - I'd argue Markstrom holds little value.

You can paint that as me being 'tainted', but goalies aren't worth much. The value from Markstrom comes from getting him at $3M. At $6M, I don't think you'd have any team able to/wanting to acquire him in-season. Perhaps in the off-season if he can put together a full decent year here. You seem to believe that Markstrom does hold value around the league and that I'm tainted - can you find a $6M goalie with a recent history like Markstrom that has been traded for value to show some level of market value? I can't really think of one. Ryan Miller was kind of the last big ticket goalie traded, no? His performance leading up to his trade dwarfs Markstrom's, and Miller didn't have term left on his deal.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Why would LA be interested in Markstrom. Talbot is having a career season to date and is on a cheap contract. Kings are pretty set in goal.

Talbot is interesting because after Edmonton all of his teams seem to have no faith in him. Even here they eventually turned to him, but Big Save Dave played over him for most of that season. He was decent in Minnesota and they punted him for MA Fleury.

Also I'd be a bit weary of a guy having his best career year at 36.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Why? If there is a team out there right now that you could take advantage in trade return it would be Edmonton. Have to think they are getting very very desperate.

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

But why should the rest of the league be able to benefit from their incompetence and not the Flames?

No still not worth that dirty Mulletville feeling.

#### 'em them drown.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

.904
.922
.892
.904


You look at these stats, and you look at his performance in the 3+ years as a Flame, and you look at $6M - I'd argue Markstrom holds little value.

You can paint that as me being 'tainted', but goalies aren't worth much. The value from Markstrom comes from getting him at $3M. At $6M, I don't think you'd have any team able to/wanting to acquire him in-season. Perhaps in the off-season if he can put together a full decent year here.

Now do every other starter on in the league over three years and it is going to look similar. I think people overestimate how good goaltending is on other teams


Look at Binnington who was brought up as a comparable:
.901
.894
.912


Saros is the only goalie who might be available that is a clear upgrade on Markstrom but he will be expensive. I don't think Markstrom at 6 million returns much but 50% retention would have to be a good return to make it worth it. There's no point to retain just to dump him.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bonded

For this year

Well I guess we can continue this discussion in the offseason then.

[Sec214]

Originally Posted by Flames1217

Not at all trying to be an insider or anything

Had a friend who used to be connected in some form to the hockey world telling me that he heard some rumblings of a deal getting "close"

Have you heard anything Diss or Sec ?

Close? Not that close … just lots of teams are interested in the flames group. We have players who are pending UFAs, we have salary retention spots, we have a few players on good deals with term.

I got some organization information but I’ve been told to zip it. Sorry brothers and sisters.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Well I guess we can continue this discussion in the offseason then.

Wouldn't be crazy for them to want some continuity in their goaltending. I figure they would be looking at grabbing Vladar though but their goalie scouts have watched both play

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Now do every other starter on in the league over three years and it is going to look similar. I think people overestimate how good goaltending is on other teams


Look at Binnington who was brought up as a comparable:
.901
.894
.912


Saros is the only goalie who might be available that is a clear upgrade on Markstrom but he will be expensive. I don't think Markstrom at 6 million returns much but 50% retention would have to be a good return to make it worth it. There's no point to retain just to dump him.

I would argue Markstrom is overrated by Flames fans. He's a career .909 goaltender which teters on good backup/mediocre starter as 2021/22 was his career season. The reality is that he's really no better than Cam Talbot who has had a more steady and consistent career.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Can we agree that no matter the situation we should not deal with Edmonton.

At some point we need to have standards.

Well there's always Florida again if all else fails. Those deals have all worked out very well.....

J bouw, Jokinen, Huberdeau

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would argue Markstrom is overrated by Flames fans. He's a career .909 goaltender which teters on good backup/mediocre starter as 2021/22 was his career season. The reality is that he's really no better than Cam Talbot who has had a more steady and consistent career.

What was Kipper's career sv%?

Spoiler!

It was .912

Kipper's save percentage was also in an era where a lot less goals were scored...

I think a lot of information gets lost when you just try to average a persons entire career or even an entire season. This season Markstrom gives the Flames a chance to win every night. He did the same 2 years ago.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

What was Kipper's career sv%?

Spoiler!

It was .912

Kipper's save percentage was also in an era where a lot less goals were scored...

I think a lot of information gets lost when you just try to average a persons entire career or even an entire season. This season Markstrom gives the Flames a chance to win every night. He did the same 2 years ago.

Yup, I think his description applies to most starters outside of the clear cut top group.

[redmile04]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

What was Kipper's career sv%?

Spoiler!

It was .912

Kipper's save percentage was also in an era where a lot less goals were scored...

I wouldnt say a lot less, other than 03/04. Post lockout scoring increased. and 03/04 despite the low scoring- his stats were out of this world, for an entire season and 4 rounds of playoffs. Something we cant compare with Markstrom. Never passed the 2nd round.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Ashes

Not even for their their unprotected 1st this season...? I would make an exception no questions asked. Why would we want them to draft a potential impact ELC player for the next 2-3 years at the top of the draft? That only helps their chances of scoring their way out of their problems next season. Screw that.
Take their picks and then when the big two leave Edmonton in the next few years after never achieving anything in the playoffs, they won't have impact players in the pipeline

I think it was on Marek/Friedman about 10 days ago they were talking about this and said something to the effect of "Imagine you're Craig Conroy and you make a deal with your arch-rival Oilers...and then they win the Cup. Doesn't matter what you got...they won the Cup and you helped them."


This. Always this. E=NG. Never, ever do "real" business with them. Ever.

[Enoch Root]

Counterpoint: imagine you trade with your arch rivals, and it propels you to winning the cup

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by redmile04

I wouldnt say a lot less, other than 03/04. Post lockout scoring increased. and 03/04 despite the low scoring- his stats were out of this world, for an entire season and 4 rounds of playoffs. Something we cant compare with Markstrom. Never passed the 2nd round.

After 06-07 Kipper played for 6 more seasons. He had a .906 sv% or below it in 4 of them, posting 2 seasons above .920 as well.

My point is that Kipper wasn't magically worse from one season to the next, but his play depended on the D and on the system. I thought he was still a top goalie in the league in 5/6 of those seasons. He just quit on Hartley because he hated the guy.

The same can be said of Markstrom. He is still a top goalie IMO. He's not in the Vezina conversation anymore, but he is bailing out the somewhat porous D night in and night out.

For example, he did everything humanly possible to keep the Flames in the NSH game yesterday, but he still got scored on 4 times.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

.904
.922
.892
.904


You look at these stats, and you look at his performance in the 3+ years as a Flame, and you look at $6M - I'd argue Markstrom holds little value.

You can paint that as me being 'tainted', but goalies aren't worth much. The value from Markstrom comes from getting him at $3M. At $6M, I don't think you'd have any team able to/wanting to acquire him in-season. Perhaps in the off-season if he can put together a full decent year here. You seem to believe that Markstrom does hold value around the league and that I'm tainted - can you find a $6M goalie with a recent history like Markstrom that has been traded for value to show some level of market value? I can't really think of one. Ryan Miller was kind of the last big ticket goalie traded, no? His performance leading up to his trade dwarfs Markstrom's, and Miller didn't have term left on his deal.

Here's the thing...i would trade Markstrom for nothing in the offseason with no money retained, before I'd retain $3M and trade him for Copley and Turcotte.

Having $6M of cap space instead of $3M of cap space after dealing Markstrom is huge. Somebody needs to get rid of 1 year * $6M contract...maybe you can buy yourself a 1st, do that both offseasons and it's 2 1sts.

Markstrom might have little to no value at $6M (although with a strong season that could easily change). But even now at $3M he should hold large value and be worth more than Copley+Turcotte.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Here's the thing...i would trade Markstrom for nothing in the offseason with no money retained, before I'd retain $3M and trade him for Copley and Turcotte.

Having $6M of cap space instead of $3M of cap space after dealing Markstrom is huge. Somebody needs to get rid of 1 year * $6M contract...maybe you can buy yourself a 1st, do that both offseasons and it's 2 1sts.

Markstrom might have little to no value at $6M (although with a strong season that could easily change). But even now at $3M he should hold large value and be worth more than Copley+Turcotte.

You wouldn't spend $6M in cap-space over the next two seasons for Turcotte? That's crazy to me. I'd do that every day. Copley is just to give Calgary a meh goalie for the remainder of this season so Vladar could run with it. Turcotte for $6M is like buying a 1st round pick, but a few years down the path in development. With him being healthy now? I think he's a great target.