Israel declares war on Hamas

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

All Hamas wants is for Israel to put down their weapons and let Hamas slaughter each and every one of them, men, women, children and babies. Why is Israel being so difficult about this if they truly want peace?

At least at Auschwitz the lambs marched quietly to the slaughter.

[Azure]

So Israel should lay down their guns, open up the borders, and Hamas won't walk in and butcher innocent people. Imagine the level of delusion you have reached in order to believe that would happen.

They tell everyone they want to wipe Israel from the face of the earth, but Israel should lay down their guns and open the borders.

Good lord that is a whole other level of stupid.

[Beninho]

https://reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/s/eSnv7CNLYF

“Palestinians don’t support Hamas”

So why are videos like this celebrating the attacks so common? I can link 15-20 more. Swastikas being displayed at rallies, death to jews being sung in Australia to France. Almost like this type of hate is a systematic problem in the Arab world. Disgusting

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

In the end, its not going to matter. The real power movers and leaders in Hamas likely don't even live in Gaza, They are rich and powerful and far away from any harm.

Israel can kill every single member of Hamas living in Gaza tomorrow, and without taking out the leadership they will act like a malignant cancer cell and rebuild the organization.

And many are not even Palestinians, they are Arab politicians, businessmen, religious powers, and state level actors. It's awful to be a civilian caught in the middle. In a previous job, I would speak to the caretaker who was an middle eastern refugee and he described so much hardship from his country being in the middle of so many powers. The civilians suffer the most and he was fortunate to escape.

Just don't escape your country, come to Canada, and then honk and chant on Canadian streets in support of terrorist organizations and violence.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Beninho

https://reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/s/eSnv7CNLYF

“Palestinians don’t support Hamas”

So why are videos like this celebrating the attacks so common? I can link 15-20 more. Disgusting

Did anyone claim no Palenstians support Hamas?

Does that video show that all Palenstians support Hamas?

Since the answer to both is no, I am not sure what point you think you are making here.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Beninho

https://reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/s/eSnv7CNLYF

“Palestinians don’t support Hamas”

So why are videos like this celebrating the attacks so common? I can link 15-20 more. Disgusting

I saw a ton of young people riding their nice SUVs driving around downtown Calgary yesterday waving Palestinian flags and honking and cheering for their victory over the weekend.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I saw a ton of young people riding their nice SUVs driving around downtown Calgary yesterday waving Palestinian flags and honking and cheering for their victory over the weekend.

Well there were no chants of Gas the Jews, so that's something.

[jammies]

I've criticized Israeli policies in the past, and I think the Likud party and Netanyahu are fascists, but Hamas is entirely reprehensible and evil and their "great victory" will do nothing for Palestinians but confirm Israel's ruthlessness as justified. These are stupid men who think committing atrocities shows they are powerful and must be appeased. It does not. It only makes committing atrocities against them in turn more palatable for the outside observer.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Whitewashing, whataboutism, gaslighting, deflecting, all straight from their social media playbook. And its going to get much worse in the days ahead.

Friends of mine with kids who grew up in the Facebook, Insta, Snap age, are having a really difficult time dealing with the anti-Israel, anti-Semitic garbage popping up all over their kids' phones. One pal with a teenage daughter received the most vile, disgusting text (from an unknown number) I have ever seen wishing on her the things that Hamas did to Israeli girls. They have of course reported it.

One of the more fascinating things about this whole conversation, and about the situation in general, is that this post really does represent the “both sides” issue. It could easily be about either and it would be true. From whataboutism to expressing hatred to wishing death on innocent people, we’ve seen it all in this thread.

There is a lot of sadness to be found beyond the profoundly sad and horrific situation happening in Gaza and Israel right now. It’s little wonder why they struggle to come to peace when people on a message board miles away can’t even hold a conversation without wishing death on each other.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by _Q_

What would peace look like?

A 2 state solution. No, not the one where palestinians take the West Bank and Gaza and Israel retreats to 67 borders. No. One state for anyone that's tired of this crap and wants to live in peace with their neighbour and another state for the likes of Netanyahu, Ben Gvir and Smotrich, along with Hamas and PIJ. They can all have each other..... but far away from the peace loving folks in Israel/palestine.

Maybe after all this is said and done the UN can partition the UK and turn london onto an international city. Send the crazies to the new nation in Europe and let the British deal with the mess they created.

You can thank Hamas for ending any hope of a two state solution. Its done, finished, you live in another reality.

https://reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/s/fdJVovgMNZ

You think Israelis are going to ever forget this and negotiate in good faith again? When videos like this are spreading around Israel that resemble something from a concentration camp, your want for a two state solution is effectively dead.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by _Q_

How about Israel lays down their arms instead? This whole racist colonialism thing isn't a good look. This is 2023 for God's sake.

They have a right to life and liberty as much as anyone. They aren't innocent by any means (settlements, expansions, 6 day war - instigated by false intel by the Soviets btw).

Israel is surrounded by factions and states who have made it their official state doctrine and religious mandate to achieve the end goal of their utter annihilation. What are they supposed to do? Renounce all defenses, go to a music festival and wait for paragliding troops to come in and mow them all down?

A line has been crossed. Israel won't forget and the international community has also been pushed to the brink. This is what happens when you indoctrinate all your young people and put weapons into their hands.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Beninho

https://reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/s/eSnv7CNLYF

“Palestinians don’t support Hamas”

So why are videos like this celebrating the attacks so common? I can link 15-20 more. Swastikas being displayed at rallies, death to jews being sung in Australia to France. Almost like this type of hate is a systematic problem in the Arab world. Disgusting

Yeah man. Let's exterminate them, right? Destroy palestine, all of them are vile. A few videos surely represent the entire population.

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

You and WCW are like flat earthers in here. It really is sad. For years you post misinformation that is damaging for Palestinians, yet you are thinking it helps. You ignore everyone that provided helpful information and you just paste the same nonsense again. After the Palestinian 'government' in Gaza invaded Israel and brutally murdered so many people, you want the border opened into Israel? Israel spent so much time and money implementing a program to limit Hamas' access to weapons, and you state after the recent attack that limiting Palestinians access to weapons is not justified? How many times did you post over the last 15 years, the entire time Gaza was independent, that Hamas should stop firing rockets at Israel?

The usual suspects in here are actually rather quiet, but several have posted that they are completely disgusted with what happened.

Whatever your sources are, whatever you think is going on, time for you to reflect. Want to talk peace or what might work to help the region? Go for it. I am game.

I wish peace in the region, what is it you want? I think that Palestinian leadership need to use this moment to say enough is enough, tell Iran to back off, come to the table and negotiate peace with Israel and give up Hamas. If Israel feels secure in that, they will make borders work. The trouble now is the Israeli population has been spooked, the savagery is emotionally overwhelming to them - Palestinians must somehow overcome that, and it must be fast and strong.

Right now, as a jew who feels for both sides (including Gaza), while I feel support from people, I am seeing way too many people supporting what Hamas did.

Think about it. Time to understand how Israel was created, how we got to today.

What is the misinformation which I have posted,.go ahead. I literally quoted what Human Rights organizations are saying. And everyone here wants peace. And if I were a Palestinian leader what I would personally say is that we want our own state but the Jewish people should also have their own state and say that clearly. And I am one who also thinks that sometimes you have to "get over" some losses. If Israel doesn't want to share Jerusalem, whatever take it, it's better than fighting a losing battle. But I would make clear that I want a real state, none of this yeah we will let you govern but Israel controls the air and sea.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Yeah man. Let's exterminate them, right? Destroy palestine, all of them are vile. A few videos surely represent the entire population.

I didn’t say exterminate, “river to the sea” is calling for extermination. I want peace, which is forever ruined after the events of this week. It will never ever happen after this.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Yeah man. Let's exterminate them, right? Destroy palestine, all of them are vile. A few videos surely represent the entire population.

Nobody is advocating for the extermination of Palestinians just as nobody wants the extermination of Israel (except for Iran and a bunch other Arab states who have officially stated this).

What needs to be eradicated is their terrorist government. People have lived in peace in these troubled regions before, it is possible to coexist but it can't when the next generations are indoctrinated into hate and manipulated by much more powerful people. Even worse when people conflate defending their cultural and ethnic identity with that of a horrible extremist government which conducts human rights violations. I can relate to that part from my own background and I wouldn't jump to the defense of my own people because they are wrong and brainwashed.

[gvitaly]

I think the Israeli anthem describes what Israeli people want. The anthem itself is named "The Hope".

Here's the translation:

As long as the Jewish spirit is yearning deep in the heart,
With eyes turned toward the East, looking toward Zion,
Then our hope ‐ the two‐thousand‐year‐old hope ‐ will not be lost:
To be a free people in our land,
The land of Zion and Jerusalem

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by jammies

I've criticized Israeli policies in the past, and I think the Likud party and Netanyahu are fascists, but Hamas is entirely reprehensible and evil and their "great victory" will do nothing for Palestinians but confirm Israel's ruthlessness as justified. These are stupid men who think committing atrocities shows they are powerful and must be appeased. It does not. It only makes committing atrocities against them in turn more palatable for the outside observer.

Ya, I think it's tough for us to comprehend how a person could do these things. I imagine them more like child soldiers, raised in this environment of war, the hate so normalized they really aren't aware of anything else or other options. The population is very young, so many know of nothing else. So the idea they would lay down arms for a peaceful settlement isn't in their nature. I really have no idea how this can ever get fixed at this point, it's just so far gone.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Nobody is advocating for the extermination of Palestinians just as nobody wants the extermination of Israel (except for Iran and a bunch other Arab states who have officially stated this).

What needs to be eradicated is their terrorist government. People have lived in peace in these troubled regions before, it is possible to coexist but it can't when the next generations are indoctrinated into hate and manipulated by much more powerful people. Even worse when people conflate defending their cultural and ethnic identity with that of a horrible extremist government which conducts human rights violations. I can relate to that part from my own background and I wouldn't jump to the defense of my own people because they are wrong and brainwashed.

That’s tough to believe when any and all defence of the Palestinian people is so often mislabeled or reduce to defence of Hamas in this thread, which is followed up by the calls for Hamas to be exterminated.

If it’s OK to express hatred for Palestinians or refer to them as animals, and defending Palestinians is defending Hamas, and Hamas needs to be executed or tortured and left to die, and if it’s OK to wish death on people who simply defend Palestinians… you wouldn’t be out of line to assume that the same people who believe all of the above would be happy to exterminate all Palestinians.

EDIT: to clarify, this is not directed at a wide range of people expressing some pretty tough emotions right now, but that there are a very small handful of people suggesting some pretty heinous things, and the distance between those things and exterminating Palestinian people is smaller than we should be comfortable with

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I think the Israeli anthem describes what Israeli people want. The anthem itself is named "The Hope".

Here's the translation:

And it's a hopeful anthem. Unfortunately other people believe their hope is stealing their land that they've lived on for 2000 years.

I don't take sides here, Jerusalem being the crux of the three major Abrahamic religions warring for centuries over land here (Crusades until now) doesn't help anything except reinforce the fact that there is no god, especially the Abrahamic one because its the most barbaric and inhumane thing I could possible imagine to create this kind of situation. No god. Only the British map men.

All this now, over a strip of land that is smaller than the city of Detroit.
https://www.themeasureofthings.com/r...it=km2&amt=365

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Beninho

I didn’t say exterminate, “river to the sea” is calling for extermination. I want peace, which is forever ruined after the events of this week. It will never ever happen after this.

From the river to the sea does not call for genocide. It is a call for decolonizing the land between the river jordan and the Mediterranean where palestinians can finally be free.

But again, just a way for you to paint an entire population with your racist fantasies.

What's your solution to all this? Ethnically cleansing the Palestinians?