Russia invades Ukraine

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by nik-

As much as I want to take every Ukrainian claim of success at face value, I need to be skeptical about those too.

Not necessarily that flaming ball of wreckage falling from the sky, but the totality.

A lot of fake footage being thrown around too. There's ones where people have taken footage from Russian airshows of planes flying by, then spliced in footage of a Ukrainian town below it. One was even of prototype aircraft. Another one where they even went a step further and edited in some Air to Ground missiles being fired by a Mig, which is something it can't even do in real life

[nik-]

Originally Posted by btimbit

A lot of fake footage being thrown around too. There's ones where people have taken footage from Russian airshows of planes flying by, then spliced in footage of a Ukrainian town below it. One was even of prototype aircraft. Another one where they even went a step further and edited in some Air to Ground missiles being fired by a Mig, which is something it can't even do in real life

There's been some clips of Syrian footage going around too.

[Cheese]

https://twitter.com/MarkHertling/sta...c9mfgAO9w&s=19

Can't embed for some reason, but good tweets by Mark Hertling, a former commanding General in the US Army.

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by tony-soprano

https://twitter.com/user/status/1497043839663714307

CNN reporting that was an Ukrainian fighter.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Leondros

CNN reporting that was an Ukrainian fighter.

Claimed it was a Ukrainian Su-27 but then walked it back and said they didn't know. Ukrainian Interior Ministry had tweeted saying it was a Russian plane but the tweet has been deleted

Firefighters almost have the wreckage under control

[Cappy]

God I couldn’t imagine living in a war zone like this. Constant stress and anxiety

[Cheese]

For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine matter? “
This is why Ukraine matters.

It is the second largest country by area in Europe by area and has a population
of over 40 million - more than Poland.

Ukraine ranks:
1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves;
2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves);
2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves;
3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters)
4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons)

Ukraine is an important agricultural country:

1st in Europe in terms of arable land area;
3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume);
1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports;
3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
5th largest rye producer in the world;
5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
8th place in the world in wheat exports;
9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
16th place in the world in cheese exports.

Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.

Ukraine is an important industrialised country:

1st in Europe in ammonia production;
Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system;
3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km);
3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
3rd largest iron exporter in the world
4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers;
4th place in the world in clay exports
4th place in the world in titanium exports
8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products;
10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).

Ukraine matters. That is why its independence is important to the rest of the world.

[Coys1882]

It's so infuriating that we aren't doing more.

Honest question here. Why didn't the EU, Canada, USA, Japan and Australia have troops in Ukraine a month ago - chilling on the border with the home troops? Why isn't that deterrent an option?

[Meelapo]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

It's so infuriating that we aren't doing more.

Honest question here. Why didn't the EU, Canada, USA, Japan and Australia have troops in Ukraine a month ago - chilling on the border with the home troops? Why isn't that deterrent an option?

Could it be because showing force, versus the sanctions that countries are enforcing, could result in the launch of more devastating weapons by Russia? Putin clearly seems a bit crazy and has already threatened countries with force that no one has seen in their history. Is it worth it for those countries to call his bluff and send troops and then be targets for a nuclear attack? It feels like there's no right approach other than the countries of the world sacrifice Ukraine? With that said, if this goes forward as it's going forward, would that set a precedence for other countries or crazies?

Side note....today...I went to the gym, I shoveled snow, I went to Home Depot. Never once was I ever worried about my safety or our country being attacked and completely altering our way of life. I'm thankful for how lucky we are and I'm truly sorry for what the people of Ukraine and Europe may have to endure.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

It's so infuriating that we aren't doing more.

Honest question here. Why didn't the EU, Canada, USA, Japan and Australia have troops in Ukraine a month ago - chilling on the border with the home troops? Why isn't that deterrent an option?

Because taunting a psychopath who has nukes and no oversight doesn’t get you votes, for obvious reasons.

[btimbit]

edit: wrong thread

[Bagor]

How come there is no talk of sanctions/action against Belarus?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Minnie

What? WTF does this even mean and more to the point, WTF are *you*?

One of the longest-running CP members.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by nik-

They should be. Those sanctions were a joke. Nothing that would potentially cause even the slightest discomfort to Germany as a result of their lack of foresight. If I'm China and I'm seeing this response, while I'm not planning on Taiwan immediately, I'm definitely saying "We can do this".

While all true, the cold reality is that Russia provides half of Germany’s gas supply (about a quarter of all their energy), and cutting that off would be more than a slight discomfort… it could be crippling. Do you really expect them to do anything to risk that?

Hopefully it provides a hard lesson to leaders around the world blindly chasing greeny points, about the importance of energy security. The largest economy in Europe neutered itself by doubling down on unreliable renewables, and is now powerless to do anything meaningful because they don’t control their supply. People seem to forget that energy is life, and at the root of everything we do.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Cheese

For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine matter? “
This is why Ukraine matters.

Did anyone ask that?

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Meelapo

Side note....today...I went to the gym, I shoveled snow, I went to Home Depot. Never once was I ever worried about my safety or our country being attacked and completely altering our way of life. I'm thankful for how lucky we are and I'm truly sorry for what the people of Ukraine and Europe may have to endure.

What would stop Trump from doing this in Canada or Mexico though?

Start a fake beef with Canada and just move in?

I’d like to believe this isn’t possible but with this?? Who the hell knows..

[Minnie]

Ukraine matters because of its people. Screw the rest.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Table 5

While all true, the cold reality is that Russia provides half of Germany’s gas supply (about a quarter of all their energy), and cutting that off would be more than a slight discomfort… it could be crippling. Do you really expect them to do anything to risk that?

Hopefully it provides a hard lesson to leaders around the world blindly chasing greeny points, about the importance of energy security. The largest economy in Europe neutered itself by doubling down on unreliable renewables, and is now powerless to do anything meaningful because they don’t control their supply. People seem to forget that energy is life, and at the root of everything we do.

Let’s not forget the USA already ruled out sanctions against importing Russia oil as it would hurt Americans. Until evidence shows differently every country is only out for themselves.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

What would stop Trump from doing this in Canada or Mexico though?

Start a fake beef with Canada and just move in?

I’d like to believe this isn’t possible but with this?? Who the hell knows..

What would stop Trump ? We’ll I can think of a few things . Namely that he isn’t the president.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Let’s not forget the USA already ruled out sanctions against importing Russia oil as it would hurt Americans. Until evidence shows differently every country is only out for themselves.

America has been shooting itself in the foot in regards to energy security almost as much as Germany. Luckily for them though, they have plenty of Nat Gas and Oil accessible (from within and friendly neighbors) if they chose to tap it.