[Trade] Sens trade Lazar and Kostka to the Flames for a 2nd + Jokipakka

[MacFlame]

As with many first rounders, particularly those that are drafted by Canadian markets, the hype and expectations surrounding Lazar were simply too high in Ottawa. The same thing happened here with Backlund, with many wondering why he wasn't playing on the top line and putting up 50-60 points in his first few years in the league.

I'm not sure if Lazar will ever be a top line player, but he doesn't have to be for the Flames to win this trade. Being a solid two way player that can fill out a third line role and put up 35-40 points or so would be huge for this team moving forward. If he can play a 3rd/4th line role on this team over the next 3 years and be groomed to eventually replace a guy like Frolik or Brouwer, I'd be ecstatic.

The second in this years draft isn't much to give up at all, considering the depth of this years draft. This is a big win for the Flames.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

no, it can't.

Roster spots, max contracts, cap and salary all play a part in the consummation of a trade.

Also, not every team values every player in the same way. What if the team you want to include Lazar with thinks the flames overpaid with a 2nd? Does Lazar then carry that same value?

A team can absorb a draft pick without consequence, it's one of the reasons you see these trade returns primarily in the form of draft picks. I don't think there was a trade completed today where there was an imbalance of players on one end of the trade. Either 1 for 1 or a player for picks.

Yes it can.

Also the bonded comment is ridiculous. Other teams could just as easily value him higher as lower.

You're talking your position here - you like draft picks so you're foregoing logic to stick to your view

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes it can.

Also the bonded comment is ridiculous. Other teams could just as easily value him higher as lower.

You're talking your position here - you like draft picks so you're foregoing logic to stick to your view

Uh, speaking of foregoing logic here:

If a team valued him higher than a 2nd round pick, and a 2nd round pick was what he was eventually traded for, and the Senators announced like a week ago they had a 2nd round pick on the table for him, don't you think the team that valued him higher than a 2nd might have stepped up to the plate to grab him at the bargain price of a 2nd round pick?

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Uh, speaking of foregoing logic here:

If a team valued him higher than a 2nd round pick, and a 2nd round pick was what he was eventually traded for, and the Senators announced like a week ago they had a 2nd round pick on the table for him, don't you think the team that valued him higher than a 2nd might have stepped up to the plate to grab him at the bargain price of a 2nd round pick?

You're forgetting this dire hypothetical situation you dreamed up to put a foreboding spin on this trade was taking place at the draft... when a lot of teams have a lot less restrictions (salary / roster spots) on them.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Uh, speaking of foregoing logic here:

If a team valued him higher than a 2nd round pick, and a 2nd round pick was what he was eventually traded for, and the Senators announced like a week ago they had a 2nd round pick on the table for him, don't you think the team that valued him higher than a 2nd might have stepped up to the plate to grab him at the bargain price of a 2nd round pick?

There is a thing called timing

[doctajones428]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

blah blah Kipper blah blah Finnish blah blah neat o!

You sure put a whole lot of effort into a whole lot of nothing

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Uh, speaking of foregoing logic here:

If a team valued him higher than a 2nd round pick, and a 2nd round pick was what he was eventually traded for, and the Senators announced like a week ago they had a 2nd round pick on the table for him, don't you think the team that valued him higher than a 2nd might have stepped up to the plate to grab him at the bargain price of a 2nd round pick?

Anyone projected to go in the back of half of this 2nd round that your super disappointed about missing out on?

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Uh, speaking of foregoing logic here:

If a team valued him higher than a 2nd round pick, and a 2nd round pick was what he was eventually traded for, and the Senators announced like a week ago they had a 2nd round pick on the table for him, don't you think the team that valued him higher than a 2nd might have stepped up to the plate to grab him at the bargain price of a 2nd round pick?

Who cares about disecting it that far though?? The trade has happened and right now no matter what way you look at it Lazar is a better piece then the 2nd Rd pick that we gave up. Could he end up being less valuable?? Maybe, about a 20 % or less chance of that but the pick hasn't even been made yet. Let's hope for the 80 % chance that Lazar proves to be more valuable than that pick.

Like the trade btw, fills a need, still very young player, somewhat affordable price depending how you look at it, what's not to like?

[codynw]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Looking at the Flames roster, Lazar is our 2nd heaviest forward, notwithstanding he's only 6'0".

He's within 6 pounds of Brower as heaviest on the team.

[Dienasty]

Lol if you think Lazar has stopped developing as a player at 22.

In my opinion this was a very high reward with minimal risk transaction.

[Zoller]

I think Lazar will do well in a bottom 6 role.

I've watched him a number of times at the NHL level and he just doesn't strike me as someone with high level offensive skill. He seems more like the type to play a fast pace
physical game with a good shot. I'd put him with Stajan or Bennett. Maybe even play him at centre and put Bennett back on the wing.

Gives us some options that's forsure. But I'm not entirely sure where he slots in on this team currently. Maybe sit Chiasson for the stupid penalties he's taken recently.

[Caged Great]

If Lazar can be a quality 3rd line winger that is a cheap contract, that will allow the team to spend additional funds on other needs like say keeping Mikael Backlund and may lessen the blow if they need to move a guy like Frolik or Brouwer to cut costs down the road.

That's very important.

Either way, we'll have a decent quick depth forward for the next 5-6 years.

[Enoch Root]

I would have thought that people that don't like Brouwer would love this trade.

If Lazar has a solid 20 games to finish the season, that opens the door to the Flames protecting Lazar instead of Brouwer.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Who cares about disecting it that far though?? The trade has happened and right now no matter what way you look at it Lazar is a better piece then the 2nd Rd pick that we gave up. Could he end up being less valuable?? Maybe, about a 20 % or less chance of that but the pick hasn't even been made yet. Let's hope for the 80 % chance that Lazar proves to be more valuable than that pick.

Like the trade btw, fills a need, still very young player, somewhat affordable price depending how you look at it, what's not to like?

I'm not even arguing that I don't like it, in fact, I'm actually saying there is a very solid chance I will like it, but I'm responding to the notion that 2nd round picks are valueless, or that it's just as easy to trade a player as it is a pick, or that it's a good thing to not have many quality prospects in the minors and other notions that some fans on this board have come to believe.

The Flames got into the position they were/are in because they failed to prioritize the draft, and now they are again deficit spending on draft picks to augment the roster. I don't necessarily disagree with that, it remains to be seen if Lazar will work out, but on the whole the Flames still need to be picking more frequently than their peers to find a diamond in the rough or two.

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Uh, speaking of foregoing logic here:

If a team valued him higher than a 2nd round pick, and a 2nd round pick was what he was eventually traded for, and the Senators announced like a week ago they had a 2nd round pick on the table for him, don't you think the team that valued him higher than a 2nd might have stepped up to the plate to grab him at the bargain price of a 2nd round pick?

1) they may not have wanted to trade him within the division

2) may not have wanted to trade him within the conference

3) a team may have valued him as a 2nd round pick but Ottawa may have thought calgary would have been higher. But that team my not have been willing to trade a first.

4) a team that valued him higher may not have been able to protect him in the expansion draft.

There are a lot of reasons why someone may value him higher than what the flames acquired him for.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I'm not even arguing that I don't like it, in fact, I'm actually saying there is a very solid chance I will like it, but I'm responding to the notion that 2nd round picks are valueless, or that it's just as easy to trade a player as it is a pick, or that it's a good thing to not have many quality prospects in the minors and other notions that some fans on this board have come to believe.

Is there one person saying any one of those things in this thread?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I'm not even arguing that I don't like it, in fact, I'm actually saying there is a very solid chance I will like it, but I'm responding to the notion that 2nd round picks are valueless, or that it's just as easy to trade a player as it is a pick, or that it's a good thing to not have many quality prospects in the minors and other notions that some fans on this board have come to believe.

The Flames got into the position they were/are in because they failed to prioritize the draft, and now they are again deficit spending on draft picks to augment the roster. I don't necessarily disagree with that, it remains to be seen if Lazar will work out, but on the whole the Flames still need to be picking more frequently than their peers to find a diamond in the rough or two.

They're not valueless, but if you project Lazar to be better than the players that will be available to you between picks 45-60, you make the trade.

Bad drafting set the team back nearly a decade ago - since 2011, across two different administrations, the drafting seems to have been reasonably effective. Losing a 2nd for a 22 year old former 1st round pick is fine.

[GioforPM]

Treliving made a pretty good case in his interview.

[Enoch Root]

I like combining trades...

So the Flames effectively traded pending UFA Russell for Lazar and Pulack and switched a 2017 2nd for a 2016 2nd.

Is there anyone who would be against that?

[Reggie Dunlop]

Treliving did hint in his news conference that the Flames would be especially active/aggressive in the college free agent marketplace this summer, so there's that. Perhaps they've targeted a few players that would be rough equivalents of a second-rounder in a weak draft.